Frustration, Frustration, Frustration
Jan 14th, 2013 by 'holic
Well, that was a party to remember. Apart from the ninety minutes intended to be the centrepiece of the celebration, obviously.
The match was decided in the tenth minute with the dismissal of Laurent Koscielny and I have to say it has taken repeated viewings of the highlights to comeΒ to a more charitable view of Mr Dean than was the case at the game. There was no doubting the penalty call. What Kos did was foolish and the holding was visible to all present. What infuriated at the time was that the goalscoring opportunity was falling to Tevez, not Dzeko. The referee’s subsequent acceptance of a series of quite deliberate assaults on Jack Wilshere did nothing to appease the angry.
This morning I accept from his angle the red card is understandable. His performance still rankles, but that feeling of frustration was magnified by another woeful Arsenal display. Once more the fragility of the squad was exposed. News spread early afternoon of the loss of Mikel Arteta. The choice of Abou Diaby, a gifted linkman when fit, to replace him was a gamble that backfired spectacularly.
At the point of the sending off Arsene sent on the defender who should not have been benched in the first place. Per Mertesacker has been our stand-out performer in defence this season. Who better to have the job of matching the giant Dzeko? Nobody in the eyes of this armchair manager. The choice of Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain to come off at that point was also interesting given the certainty that neither Diaby nor Lukas Podolski would last ninety minutes, although in the case of the German I don’t think I am the only one to wonder why.
Most frustrating of all was starting Theo Walcott ahead of Olivier Giroud in the centre. The anonymous contract rebel stayed in the warm and comfortable pocket of his markers throughout, offering no outlet for a midfield being overrun. Behind him nine men worked their socks off to stem the blue tide, in particular Jack Wilshere and Thomas Vermaelen. If there is a lesson that Theo can learn it is the return to form of the skipper, strangely out of sorts at the start of the season, but now back in full Verminator mode.
The defeat itself will not have come as a major surprise. City have a blend of skill and graft that should see them keep on the coat tails of their neighbours to the end of the season. With eleven we would have needed a helping of good fortune to secure the points. With ten it was too big an ask. It does mean even greater focus on the week ahead, or perhaps I should say the two and a half weeks ahead. Swansea, Chelsea, West Ham, Liverpool, and possibly Brighton. Four or five games in fourteen days that may shape or shake the rest of the season.
Reinforcements will be required.
223 Responses to “Frustration, Frustration, Frustration”
I’m supposed to be working!
Me too… Maybe its the utter frustration of watching this Arsenal that’s distracting us… Aimlessly looking for news on a signing. Any bleedin signing.
I’m afraid that I’ve almost lost patience with AW. This aint going to be a good season I’m afraid…
Matt – this is going to a tough month, never mind season.
4th???????
Right now I would rip your arm off for 4th.
The s***s spot???
Agree that after repeated viewing Mike Dean got it right re Kos red card. Another strange choice of starting 11. Not the game to start Diaby & playing Theo up front on his own is missing out on any high balls into the box from open play. I thought that the second half display was encouraging & so mercifully the 5-nil (or worse) trouncing didn’t materialize…credit to the players for that.
By far the worst moment of the week-end however was reading that the poor start (& presumably previous limp wristed home performances) was because the players are anxious about the reaction from the Emirates faithful. If Arsene really did say this it’s definitely time for him to go.
I agree it was a very disappointing evening.. However, I think Arsenal and ESPECIALLY Jack deserve credit for fighting till the last breath, even though a comeback didn’t seem very realistic… just saying
Good write up, very balanced and you saw the game as I saw it. Mike Dean is an odious little rat, and hardly gave us a decision all afternoon, but the red card… we’ve all seen them given.
What follows is a bit of a public outpouring of angst, so please feel free to read no further if you’re fed up to the back ones with this sort of thing. I should add that none of the below is particularly influenced by yesterday’s events, beyond the fact that Abou Diaby was forced to start against the reigning champs, half fit and out of position. I thought our performance in the circumstances was generally OK – any time you give a decent team a man’s head start you’re always going to be up against it.
The lack of Arsenal news is clearly weighing heavy on us all. I can only repeat my mantra: if we do not bring in reinforcements this window then something is seriously wrong. Either with the manager or the board. And I know which of those two parties I trust less.
Clearly, ours is a squad in need of new blood. We lack balance in crucial areas of the pitch and are consequently running players into the ground. Arteta injured, Cazorla has visibly been knackered for at least a month and Jack (who was wonderful yesterday) is throwing himself around the pitch and taking a shoeing every other game, when we should be taking much better care of him.
I won’t go back into the areas in which we need new players. We all know where they are, and roughly what’s needed. We also know that there are quite clearly players on the market this month who would improve this squad, in terms of its depth if not the actual quality of the first choice XI.
What I will say is this: last season was a rollercoaster during the course of which we were slightly fortunate to escape the consequences of our own ineptitude. As we dusted ourselves down and breathed a sigh of relief in May I think we all thanked our lucky stars we’d come through relatively unscathed, and there was a general sense that we would not repeat our errors. That the squad would be fixed over the summer, that dead wood would be chopped out, new blood brought in and that we would not, in future, find ourselves praying for slip ups from our rivals in order to maintain our top 4 status.
I think that the above, and the fact that this season we appear to be engaging in an even more risky bout of brinkmanship, is what is truly giving me the heeby-jeebies. If we do not finish top 4, and without adding to the squad this month I fear there is a real danger of such an outcome, it will not be as if we weren’t given a fair warning that this might be on the cards.
As with the rest of you, I know roughly what is going wrong, but I do not know the cause of it.
Arsenal fans seem to be divided into several camps: those who think the manager has lost his mind and is sat in his cave on a great mound of gold, refusing to spend a penny of it for reasons of pride/avarice/delusion; those who are increasingly concerned that the owner intends to bleed the club; those who feel that the board do not know arse from elbow and are using Wenger as a human shield; those who feel that whatever problems we suffer are the fault of Aaron Ramsey, and so on. What unites us all is that none of us, from the most ITK of ITKs on down, really has a fucking clue as to why this great club of ours seems to have become terminally unable to put hand to pocket and fix the now glaring gaps in the squad.
I will follow the Arsenal to hell and back if needs be, and I remain 100% behind the lads, come what may.
What I would like to see in exchange is just the tiniest fragment of honesty. If we have no money, then let us know. If we are destined for a spell in mid table, give us an inkling. If we really are going to end up watching Andre Santos at left back for the foreseeable, then give me a heads up and I will commence gouging out my own eyes in preparation, but will sing the team on with as much volume as ever.
It doesn’t seem an unfair trade to me.
And I say all of this as someone who believes in this manager, believes in the majority of these players and still thinks we will finish top 4 and that Ollie Giroud is good for 20 goals. I just don’t see why we insist on doing it the hard way, is all.
Cheers for listening, I feel better for getting all that out of my system.
COYG
SOS Same old story. The defence as usual is ball watching when Milner strides to strike . No one tried to block.
It seems under Wenger defence is non existent. No defence drills according to Clichy which must be true with the same type of goals conceded repeatedly.
Wenger I believe has reached his time frame. Arsenal shd get someone who can bring a different approcah to the game.
Meeting over.
Another “business” meeting now. Tell you later.
N7 – take a bow son. π Fantastic post.
Although Koscielny’s sending off was correct in the eyes of the law, the law is an ass. He didn’t deny Dzeko a clear goal scoring opportunity as Dzeko was awarded a penalty – what’s that if not a clear, goal-scoring opportunity?
Red cards for this offence should be reserved for fouls outside the box, where no penalty ensues, otherwise the offender is punished twice.
Patience is beginning to run very thin with Wenger/the board. I hear very few people defending him/them nowadays. It’s the appararent unwillingness to act like a big club and be decisive in the market that concerns me. The dithering, uncertainty and a seeming failure to grasp the seriousness of the situation has become very irritating indeed.
Still, at least it’s snowing.
Man for man, I don’t think we would have beaten City if it was 11 v 11. This team lacks quality, depth, effort and increasingly discipline.
N7, that drink@8 deserves a drink.
Played ‘h
Think the stakes just got a little higher this high stakes Jan with that loss and the nature of some of it. (Especially rushing DRB back when Artetetaaa pulled up lame – what a massive gamble, due to our fairly limited resources re that area/that type of player, that looked.)
Come on Arsene. Come on Arsenal.
Psed – nice work over the post Zee.
Oh, and while I’m above ground, Holic, what happened to you?
You weren’t beamed up and probed by aliens, by any chance? That happens, you know……
sad to see what arsenal have succombed to, definite need for fresh blood and injection of morale. i dont think wenger has it in him to rally the players any more and his austerity attitude to buying and selling has reached full circle.
Is anyone still seriously wondering whether the club has some money to invest in the squad – if the will to spend it is there.
fair enough, i can understand the amount of money the club has being open question. Then it’s a question of whether we can get the right players in at this latish juncture. There’s a sense that the club doesn’t seem to be working that hard on that front. Or perhaps cards being held very close to chests. I hope so.
Up The Arse!
Oops “open to question” UreDs!
Reinforcements wont be coming. Also, it’s a bit rich Wenger calling his team “timid” when that’d be the perfect word to describe his player acquisition performance.
I was thinking the same of you lot, Dr z. One minute I remember happily chatting under the brolly, the next Gaz came over to say hello and everybody vanished. I went to try and find Jess just to say hi, and thinking the party had broken up I trudged off to Paddington to sup more ale and secure yet another London Pride pint pot to add to the collection π
Football aside, a stonking day out though. Thanks to you and everybody. Even the post mortem was a blast. Suffering today though…
Good summary Holic and nice contribution N7.
Very, very sad….inexplicable selections, inexplicable defending, inexplicable substitutions, inexplicable marginalisation of players who could still ‘do a job’, previous inexplicable purchase(s) of dross, current inexplicable inertia in the transfer market, inexplicable lack of leadership on and off the pitch…..where does it all end? Is the man clinically depressed and incapable of finding his way out?
Being down to ten men with 80 minutes remaining against the reigning champions,and ones that spent a cool billion pounds was never going to yield a positive result. Okay you can argue that we, or rather Koscielny shot us in the foot, but the reality is that it happened and is not something Arsene Wenger can be blamed for. We have a fight on our hands to scrape in front of the Spuds and into the top four and perhaps some ‘fans’ should re-adjust their expectations a little and back the team till the end of the season. This throwing of toys out of the cot and constant negativity is becoming really tedious and it seems to be affecting the players who are after all only human. If Wenger said it, then it must be true whether we like it or not. This is not to a reference to this site, which has been one of the bastions of rational thinking and level headiness. Would hate for it to turn into another Arsenal bashing waste of internet space like many others have.
Holic, we were just inside the door π
How on earth are you fellas ‘working’ today π
Kozzer deserved the red but it’s depressing knowing that it’s tackle ‘No 1’ in the Stoke City play book and we’ve had our guys taken down in the same way without a noise from the refs.
If Vidic or Sketel had done it they may have got a yellow but probably nothing….
We have 3 subs and the game is now a 14 man game, so I don’t have a problem with Diaby starting (where he can be replaced if he breaksdown yet again), but I really think we need to be a bit wiser with Theo in the middle. It should have been OllieG starting with Theo wide and move Theo in when the defenders get tired.
dobromir,
im all for backing the team through thick and thin, but should we not voice our concerns as we are all getting run over by the board and manager who seem to be taking us fans for mugs by lowering our expectations.
We are in a serious mess. Without reinforcements, we could very well fall out of the CL spot (our very own trophy) this year. Now Arteta is gone for anywhere from 3 weeks to 3 months. Diaby cant be trusted to play 2 games on a trot.
Hopefully, our scouting department will manage to find Arteta-quality players even though it is not an easy task!!!
@ 24
Easy when you bullshit for a living π
drink@22
“If Wenger said it, then it must be true”
None so blind as those who will not see?
Sigh!
I just got very very hungry all of a sudden. I shall counter this by going out in the massive snow storm to get myself some food.
Good balanced post Holic!
I’m not so happy with the result and I don’t care if we played better in the 2nd half.
Arsene had time to prepare his team for the game I know loosing Arteta is not ideal but we can’t crumble every time we loose a player through injury.
We have Tomas Rosicky back in the squad and he wasn’t even on the bench yesterday. We need experience and he’s certainly has that in him. We have not played him for few games now and I’m starting to wonder why.
City on the other hand has a massive list of injuries and they still managed to rip us apart and they did that fairly easily.
We didn’t loose the game because we played with 10 men let’s not make excuses again for those who play and wear the shirt, it’s yet another collective fuck up that we had to witness yet again.
We have let in soft goals yet again first one was just a shocker they all just stood there and watched it. Second well how many times has that happened?
I’ll be glad if we drop out of the FA cup because frankly we do not need any more fixtures this season as we will NOT buy anyone to strengthen the squad. Arsene’s blind belief that this group of players have spirit, it’s one thing to have spirit and another to get results just because I have a good spirit doesn’t mean I will be getting a pay rise does it now? I need to work hard and show my end results and it needs to be constant not just one off now and again and that’s what this group of players do they do preform now and again!
No reinforcements means we are not the club we use to be – challenging for trophies that is and 4th in the EPL and CL spot is not a trophy Arsene!
Afternoon All
Hello ‘Holic – I’ll just continue a thread from the previous drinks and say that I believe the time has come for manager and team to part company. That doesn’t mean we can’t celebrate what he has achieved and continue to benefit from what he has put in place. Everything runs its course.
N7, I’ll join Dr.z in praising that fine post of yours above.
Sounds like there was a fine party going on in The Tollie yesterday. I believe the CMC is well stocked with hairofthedog tincture.
Massive snow storm Lars? You are from Sweden, right? π
N7 your response is as good or better than the original blog and is accurate in your assessment and the problems. Why o why is it so difficult for Arsenal to buy quality additions, is it because we are only looking for “super super quality” like Chamkh, Park, Santos and the like – really ! There has been a number of players that are available in postions that need filling but as usual nothing happens and it is really beginning to have a serious effect on not only the team but more crucially in the long term,the support. The end of the 2017 season and the Emirates has 27,000 for the last game and sadly this will be a reality unless various digits are removed from various orifices and very quickly.
ATG
From the sound of things, I’m not convinced that The Barman would be that good at balancing today.
Sounds like I missed a great day out. Dang! Very balanced and fair commentary, Holic. With you on Mr Podolski. His loss of an easy ball to hold set up the first goal. That’s two in the same number of weeks.
Quite EXCELLENt @8 N7. Best you’ve written here.
I watched the game in a very fine pub. From that vantage I have no doubt Arsenal would have won that match in an eleven v eleven contest. The better team of two in the second half. But Theo Walcott worth 100k? Not of my money. Alex the Ox is already contributing more and currently deserves to start ahead of he who craves such riches for little return.
Time and tide preclude any more extended commentary.
Keep walking.
So it did all go pear-shaped. It is hard to argue against the award of a penalty for Kos wrestling with Dzecko’s waist, but if red cards were to be handed out every time that happened in the area there would be half a dozen reds a game.
I don’t think Diaby would have started if Arteta had been fit. The alternatives would have been starting with the Coq or Ramsey, the former an experience gamble in a big game, the later requiring either him or Jack to have played out of position as the DM. Plus, having decided on leaving out Mertesacker, Diaby added some height in defense. He wasn’t the wrong choice in the circumstances before the game to provide the most balanced midfield. Ten minutes in, the Coq would have probably have been the right choice.
Holding out for 80 mins, 10 against 11, is a big ask. The second half performance was encouragingly determined and disciplined. The team put in a shift. If they could have got to half time level, there might have been a point or even all three for the salvaging. After the initial period after the sending off to when Milner scored (and how many times a season will he find a shot like that?) Man City didn’t look that impressive, or make their additional person count. Even at two down I thought that if we could snatch one goal, we would get a second. One question, why couldn’t the tactical changes that were made at half time that led to the disciplined second half display be made as soon as Kos got sent off? Teams train for these situations so it is not as if they are having to make it up from scratch.
Their second goal underlined something we are missing badly, a poacher striker. Dzecko had a simple tap in after Woj palmed away the shot because he was where goal poachers know to be. We rarely seem to have anyone following up a shot.
Great write up ‘holic. It was a frustrating day no doubt but the one positive was that there was no lack of effort despite the incredible odds against once Kos went off. Indeed if they hadn’t put in the shift they did the scoreline would have been much more embarassing.
I’m not sure how it felt in the stadium but I would just like to say that the atmosphere sounded incredible on the TV. There were several moments during the game when it sounded like the entire stadium was signing. Great to hear when the team had it’s backs against the wall.
Finally regarding Diaby I think NBN above hits a good point regarding the height of the team. Also with Arteta’s injury I think AW decided to split those duties during the game between Diaby and Ramsey. If that were the case it makes a lot more sense to give Diaby the start with his injury record as it would allow for him to have the benefit of a full pre-game warm-up and preparation and would give the option to bring Ramsey on if he picked up a knock before his alloted time was up.
Is anybody really surprised that Arteta is injured? The guy has been played to the ground this season by Mr.I know and was on the brink of a breakdown.
Going into the season without replacing Song shows ,now eh?
Hate me for this – but Im guessing Santi is going to get injured next. Another player who has been overplayed (much like Cesc when he was 18-19) thanks to the manager’s complete incompetency of adding quality depth.
Fun times.
Nice report Holic especially considering the obvious levels of consumption from the combustible whiff around the bar. If Tabs lights-up the whole place is likely to go up in smoke! π
And some magnificent drinks from Esso, N7 & Zico pre and post match.
When playing in Big matches against Mike Dean – we really ought to know what to expect. Or more importantly, to make sure we don’t give him any excuses to make a spectacle of himself. So my heart sank when I saw Kos get the nod. The last time we played both Kos and Vermy against Chelsea it blew up in our face and I thought we might have learned from that. We’ve had the Kos Vs Vermy discussion before on the drinks. I’ve always felt that while there can be no doubting his all round brilliance in play, Kos more than others, has a greater propensity for calamity. And to sacrifice Per of all players was utterly ridiculous.
That said – we should know how to re-adjust and play a 10 man game. We didn’t start grafting or playing until half time (which seems evermore a pattern now) and by that stage we were 2 down. And that grafting is a load that has to be carried by the remaining 10 players. Compare the work ethic of Tevez (who was primarily responsibly for both their goals I thought and then of course Mancini substituted him..!) or Milner to Theo’s.
I think Walcott embodies everything thats right and wrong about the club: we reward talent more than application. I will be severely disappointed if we bow to his demands, but then again, I feel we’ve largely been pandering to his ego for the last two years and the team has largely suffered for it too. Jack is by far the most important signing we’ve made in recent years. He seems to care more about the football than the pay check..!
I agree somewhat with Ned on the Diaby front. We needed a little more height and physical presence and from some accounts of the appearances in some of the games he played before Sunday, he was apparently returning to form. That said, it was a risk, and Wenger admitted as much in his interview before the game. If he plays well its a great tactical move and if he doesn’t he’s lambasted for it – there’s no middle ground.
In relation to potential new signings I can understand why Wenger waits until late in the window. When we tried to buy Mata, we were gazumped. And I don’t think its a question of “going the extra mile”: we’re talking about Chelski doubling his salary! We just cannot compete with that. They also tried to gazump us on Giroud. But despite the money, Giroud chose to come to Arsenal which is something he deserves credit for. Despite what we might think, Wenger does have a reputation for having a good eye for a player, so its not entirely surprising to see why he’s playing his cards close to his chest. I’m not making excuses here, because I think we could have handled many things in much better ways and there can be no denying that we need players but I’m merely stating that “brinkmanship” forces clubs to make their minds up and crystalises the sale price at a time when few clubs (outside of the Russians/Arabs) actually have money available to spend and that suits clubs with limited resources like AFC.
Back home. No snow.
“We have no problem with people wanting to join us. I would like to give you my phone for 24 hours, and you would see that,” Wenger said.
“Can we afford them? Most of them, yes; a few of them, no. Can you afford Lionel Messi today? Certainly not, but we can afford 90% of them.”
“If you look at our squad, it is quite complete,” he added.
βTo find players of a calibre of Arteta, available in January, I wish you good luck.β
For me – the quotes above should leave us in no doubt that Wenger controls the purse strings at Arsenal – that and his comments about salaries (the socialist model) as well should tell you – He has money to spend and he isn’t likely to spend it.
So please, no more comments about the board stopping him from doing things or imposing restrictions on his transfer business. It just ain’t true.
According to reports he has anywhere from Β£50-75 million to spend between wages and transfer. There is nothing stopping him from going out and spending the money on a Fellani, who would go some distance to adding real quality (and God, do we need it) to our midfield. It’s his decision to leave Arshavin and Rosicky (injured again?) out of our already threadbare squad.
He has completely bungled this season and if there are no signings between now and the end of January, he is really going to get it with both barrels when the chickens come home to roost – and they will – Arteta out for 3 weeks (could be longer with our medical team) and what happens if Santi or Jack break down?
Sorry to be a pessimist here, but I really can’t see anything improving or league position unless Wenger opens his chequebook and buys quality.
22; Dobromir
I think most of us visit this site because we tend to agree with a lot of what ‘holic writes as well as with the prevailing sentiments of the community his writing attracts.
In the same way that I don’t much care to watch Arsenal anywhere near a serial moaner or someone who abuses anyone wearing the red and white, I don’t pay much attention to blogs that whinge and wine.
The community here is much more balanced and measured than a lot of other blogs out there. In the years that I’ve been reading Goonerholic, it is only very recently that people have started to express disappointment with AW.
If people here think that we’re witnessing a period in which Arsenal appears to be in decline, then I’m not sure that there is much wrong in articulating that point-of-view.
The difference is that most of the community here don’t want that to happen. Elsewhere (e.g. Le Grove), that’s exactly what they want: just to spite AW and prove that the shite they’ve spouted for years is in fact correct.
Most of the posters here — I think — want success for the Arsenal and for AW to come good. But we’ve been waiting patiently for that to happen and with AW’s inaction in this transfer window and bewildering proclamations about this that and the other. Well, we’re starting to get pissed off.
Nothing wrong with that — we’ll still support the Arsenal until we die and all that, but somethings has to change. Surely?
Ah brave lad TS, reckon itβs a pretty straightforward job to dress-up the obvious as insight; clench your metaphorical fist; swear allegiance to the badge and come up with a pandering re-hash of stuff thatβs already been said; garnering a few easy pats on the back along the way.
It takes a bit more bottle and pβraps honesty (intell., not moral sort) to try to sensibly move a difficult debate along β and beware brickbats, not pats, often come with that territory.
For my part I still think the manager has a bit more time on his side (this tranny window, then on to the rest of the season?) to redeem himself in the eyes of the fanbase β but like I said over the post (see!!! Re-hash, sometimes β yes. Please!) borrowed time, time is fast brighton and hoving into view.
If we cop more significant injuries we cannot adequately cover (due, in part, to tranny shop inactivity) and finish outside the top 4, AW will struggle to make it all keep making sense to a growing number of Arse fans, I think.
Time to take another long walk. π
Once every 37 years : Part 2
There it goes again I thought. That bastard alarm.
I awoke in a strange bed (on my own, Rox, honest injun) feeling as parched as an Arizona cactus. The glass of water on the table beside me disappeared in a flash, and speaking of flashes, yesterday’s frivolities were flooding back, but came to a shuddering halt at the memory of Mike Dean. Someone said he’s back at the Grove on Wednesday – say it ain’t so, Joe.
I made a dash for the Circle Line and headed toward Liverpool Street and a meeting I would rather have avoided. It lasted 2 hours and I managed to spraff my way through it, with the client leaving happier than when he came in, so, job done. I then proceeded to tell a massive porky to my 2 colleagues that my flight back is early afternoon. The reality – I was headed back to the Grove, for the Legends Tour I’d been promising myself for yonks.
Don’t take this the wrong way, Perry, but I’m kinda miffed that you ain’t Charlie. Still, you were George’s first signing, so that in itself is kind of legendary. I was surprised to learn that Perry has two league championship medals. (My principal memory of PG, and I suspect I’m not alone, is of him setting up the other Charlie against the mighty Liverpool in the whatever-it-was-called-then Cup Final, a lifetime ago).
So back on the tube, I got to Finsbury Park with sufficient time to nip in to The Pins for a hair of the hound. The food I had for breakfast was bland, but Guinness never lets you down for taste. I love you Arthur. Twice. The contrast in the Twelve Pins on a Monday afternoon, compared to match day is striking. The few patrons seated were either idle or rich, or worse still, bunking off early from work. π
A spring put back in my step, I strolled down St Thomas’s Road and with a sigh, I passed Highbury, or what’s left of it. In these barren times, the nostalgia for Highbury is especially bitter-sweet : for one, had we stayed there I wouldn’t be making this journey, or forming these words. Nor would I have formed some great friendships. If only the alchemy had travelled with everything else on that short journey to Ashburton Grove, the world would be, both virtually and in reality, perfect.
I arrived at the ground not sure what to expect in terms of numbers, thinking, “Monday afternoon, probably just two men and a dog”, with me doing my level best not to be the dog. But of course, that was muddled thinking, as this is the Arsenal corporate machine we’re dealing with here, with this tour probably fully booked for a while. I counted 35 of us. Nice symmetry with the Β£35 cost of the ticket. So for the hour and quarter that the tour lasted, assuming all paid the same as yours truly, the club raked in Β£1225. And I have to say, it was great value.
Perry, looking well, was great fun – his delivery I’m sure is well honed through constant use, but I took the opportunity to speak to him on a one to one a number of times throughout the tour and he was very genuine and gregarious. The biggest surprise to me was how “off message” he was, including some interesting views on Usmanov (he said we should be taking his money) and Charlie Nick, who he seemed to dislike and gave his reasons why.
Whilst I had read a lot of the stuff before in Alex Fynn’s book, it was still fascinating to hear again whilst on the premises how much of Arsene Wenger’s thoughts and ideas went into the blueprint for the stadium. From feng-shui to acoustics, the impression of pampered players is reinforced by the attention to detail afforded match preparation. For a team like the Invincibles it could be justified – some of the present cadre I think, though, could do with a dose of reality. Perry – I can call him, Perry now ;), agreed but being of theTuesday Club generation I suspect, there is more than a trace of envy there.
Once we got on to the cost of Executive Boxes, Club Level season tickets etc, the numbers started to go off the scale. You would think with the intake of money that Arsenal are pulling in with 40,000 season ticket holders they would see the self-fulfilling prophecy of mediocrity that will follow if they don’t sort out the primary product on the park. Unless, that is, everyone is as committed as Trev, to find a way of paying through the fallow times in the belief (hope?) that things will get better eventually. And that is not meant to be construed as a swipe at Trev or anyone else. Do they (Arsenal) really think that the fabled waiting list will last forever?
I got to sit in Kroenke’s seat today, albeit for a brief ten minutes. I can’t say that I had any great epiphany as a consequence of occupying that space – but maybe Stan has a plan? Maybe his great master plan is so cunning that he could put a tail on it, and call it weasel.
I will give the club credit where it’s due though – they managed what the team failed to do yesterday, and one that seemed unlikely – they put a smile on my face when I left the stadium. I went today fully loaded with cynicism. I came out however again, at least partially, enthused. There is still so much class in and around the club, that whatever our on- field problems, we are still by far the classiest outfit out there when it comes to public presentation. If only we could think and act as big with our No 1 product. Part of the problem is that, with Arsene’s work evident at every turn, it is not too hard to see why some are terrified to contemplate life without him.
It’s taken the Oily Mancs 37 years to win at our place (now that is what I call a barren period). I had a horrible feeling when Holic reminded us of that fact that they were due, and whilst the game yesterday was a disappointment, you don’t fall out of love that easily. We have much to build on, and I need to believe that we will. It’s what keeps me coming back.
I will definitely be back for more.
But Arsenal would be foolish to take the complacent view that I speak for anyone other than myself.
Matt(2) @ 43.
Wow. That post made me feel ashamed of myself and all my self-pity. Well done. A much needed perspective readjustment.
I’d be honored if you’d take a dink on my tab, sir.
Thanks my friend!
A right riveting read bruvva Zee – ta.
Zico: Great read. And good old Perry G — love that guy
I thought I will write my post before raeding any of the previous posts today as I did not want to get distracted.
Kos dismissal and red card in my view deserved, if it happened in the other penalty box to one of our players I would want the opposing player sent off and shot at dawn for the afront.
Kompany dismissal also the right call hands down. What ever angle you want to look at his starting leap clearly showed 2 feet leaving the ground *not in control* red card, end of.
Piss poor defending by Kos was his own downfall that became our downfall. Starting position all wrong and a last ditch rugby tackle in the box will result in one thing and it did, RED. First half defending was poor bar Gibbs who I thought was one of our best players along with Jack. Both in the 2nd half uped there game and gave all in an effort to chase a game they lost in the 1st half.
Diaby enculsion infront of Ramsey tells you all you need to know about AW thoughts on the welshman, however we just extended his contract ? If I was Ramsey I would have to question this selection as Diaby has played 22 games this season all on FIFA 13 and not kicked a ball in anger for Arsenal for 3 months “I dont get it”
Diaby was as ring rusty as me and I have never boxed ! It was nice to see a bit of height in the centre but of little help when you are that far off the pace of the game. I hope he can stay fit until the end of the season but I also hope I can be spiderman and I dont think thats going to happen as I dont even know were you would find a radioactive spider ?
Walcotts claims for Β£100k a week took another blow as he didnt get much service but also didnt come looking for the ball as Giroud did. Off side much of the game and rather lazy to boot.
Caz can not play on the wing as showed yesterday and even more of a shock that when Kos had the bath all to himself that the Ox was taken off for BFG that he didnt leave the Ox on and take off Caz and give more balance to the 4-4-1. The tiny spainard has been great all season and a rest wouldnt of done him any harm and leave the strong Ox on.
Second half we made a fist of it which left me less angry and more proud that we didnt roll over and have our belly tickled by the Manc`s which we have let happen in the past when we go down to 10 men. Gibbs and Jack must take the biggest praise for that.
3 weeks without Arteta means in Arsenal speak a minimum of a month, which will be painful to the extreme.
Well lets hope for a good result on wednesday.
Gooner for life !
Cheers zico (are you Wind in disguise? π )
Safe trip back home.
Rev AL @ #44
Cheers your wholly-ness. I agree, the time to sort these things out is in the summer and behind closed doors but they do need sorting out.
Change often leads to betterer things for all concerned. One thing’s quite clear to me, what we have now isn’t werking in terms of building a winning football team. I’m fairly certain that we all want that – the winning bit I mean.
It’s snowing here now.
N7 @ 8 … just popped in. And your post has saved me from having to write anything π !!
As I read on Twatter yesterday; we just want to know who to blame! π
Some top Drinks Zico and N7 take a bow:)
In answer to your question N7 I’m defo in the camp of its a certain Americans doing as not for a minute can I believe a Manager that was as groundbreaking as Wenger cannot see what 90% of the fan base have seen for a good 3-4 Years,
And as for selling his best players really – Sorry carnt buy it, It stinks of asset stripping ! Saying that I’m afraid to say I think the Managers days are numbered the decline is now so serious it will take 2-3 seasons of investment and hard graft to put right and looking at his body language just carnt see him being up for it. Sad days but we’ve been here before and we no doubt will be here again but we always find ourselves fighting back.
Just seen on Sky we are now back in for Zaha not sure he’s what we need right now but it looks like the chequebook may have been found ! Apparently it’s up to him to come to us or the Mancs !
Some impressive drinks there all, including a couple of crackers from Dr z.
Thanks.
Very well balanced report, ‘holic. Hope the game didn’t spoil your birthday celebrations, you’ve had better birthdays/matchdays and i’m sure you will have more better ones.
Here are my observations from yesterday, i’ve not read the drinks on this post so sorry if i rehash what others have said already, here goes: 1. Kos’ deserved the red card and i’d like to see the referees be more consistent in this decisions. 2. I think Diaby had to start to compensate for the lack of height and raw power in our team yesterday. 3. Theo is NOT a lone striker. 4. Jack is a lion. 5. Santi was missing. 6. Ramsey’s performance yesterday was NOT a one off, he has been playing well for the better part of this season. 7. Sir Schez is/will be a great ‘keeper. 8. We need re-inforcements. 9. Sagna is in the worst form of his life. 10. We are a better team with Giroud upfront and we will play way more better games than we did yesterday.
Happy Bday for yesterday Mr H,
If your around for Stoke I’ll buy you a late Bday drink as I’ll be breaking my self imposed excipe for one game ! I know what your thinking why O why of all teams Stoke lol
A good mates son has been badgering his old man to finally take him to there beloved Arsenal and for all the ills at the club, seeing a young un get there first glimpse of the boys in red and white cannot be missed;)
Poxy phone Excile even !!
Heh Ollie, I will be back to my terse self soon, you’ll see. π
Back in Caledonia, if not yet quite home.
Thanks for everyone’s kind words above – you deserve a drink if you managed to read through to the end on either of those posts. You deserve a holiday if you read through both!
In particular, nice to see you back Chippy – you’ve been almost tee-total of late… π
Haha not quite mate – I’m still slinging them back but struggle with the Bars opening times π Works been murder for the past few months and don’t seem to get the time to pull up the bar stool for a good old chin wag π Hope alls well fella π
Sounds like you had a good day bar the result but at the end of the day meeting Friends old and new is as much a part of the day as what happens on the field !
Good stuff guv’nor, glad you had a great day (despite the football) out.
Excellent reports from our on the spot ‘holics, including a master class from zico.
I’ll touch on yesterdays showing either later or another time, for now, check this out;
http://www.givemefootball.com/324648-how-clean-is-your-premier-league-club
#63.
Rodents at Old Toilet, who’da thought it? π
Heh rodents found at Man Ure.
One of ’em cost Β£24M….
Great minds…..fools etc π
I see most drinkers have touched
on some of the things i wrote.
Nice post, Zico, just like you, i will keep coming back for more, hopefully, it won’t be more of the same stuff we saw on sunday.
Great fool?
Well, you can thank me. π
π
zico, your longish posts were well worth the time they took to read. Good work mate.
rodents? I thought Luke Chadwick had gone some time ago. Is he still haunting the place?
Dusty Springfield @ 292 from previous drinks,
Top stuff,
Now for part 2.
Holy Shit anyone checked out Bartons twitter feed him and Didi Hamman are having a right ding dong – Think some Libels will be in the post lol What an odious oik but it is funny:) If that’s real it’s going to make some headlines lol
Balanced report ‘holic and Jack Wilshere was immense; our MotM by a country mile. Zabaleta for the visitors.
Sounds like much joviality was had regardless of the result post-match. Good stuff!
As with the LWC, sendings-off change matches. Kos was stupid, yet again, and the resulting punishments were deserved. We would have demanded the same if the tables were turned. A couple of seasons ago at the Manchester Municipal Council ground, the tables were turned and we played against 10 following an early bath for a Citizen and came away with a similar result. Karma perhaps?! Maybe not but it all balances out eventually. Regarding Kompany, began as a two-footed challenge and overly aggressive; red card and the appeal will be dismissed as frivolous!
Geoff @279 from previous drinks,
In the short-term Geoff, I think Arsene Wenger just has to go back to basics for the remainder of this season and deploy the players he has at his disposal in their “natural” positions, with a disciplined defensive and attacking mentality drilled deeply into them with punitive consequences if not adopted. He should know ALL of these players by now and IMHO, they are more than good enough, if the experimentation of “square pegs into round holes” nonsense is stopped, to comfortably finish in the top 3.
If Arsene persists he will fail to finish in the top 4 because I really think that alot of these players are not mentally strong enough to cope with the pressure and expectation if allowed to play as they currently are with repeated set-backs and inconsistency.
N7 @8,
Good stuff.
Joe @40 and & Matt @43,
Good posts, agree with much of what you both say.
Zico @46,
Nice stuff,
N7 and Zico, marvelous stuff. ‘Holic, as always, manages to sum up the ennui involved in contemplating Arsenal’s performances this year. And happy belated birthday, sounds like it was a stormer in spite of the obvious two-hour down note.
Seems we’ve got another new round of molotovs coming out of the AST meeting, thanks in large part to some rather provocative comments from the esteemed (at least by me) Phillipe Auclair. While context is largely lacking from these comments, it appears Auclair is laying most if not all of the confusion and inaction at the feet of the Board and, ultimately, the club’s absentee owner. I feel there is as much justification for this point of view as all the others, which is why I’ve done my best to not try and divine exactly what is going on upstairs, or in Arsene’s head, or in training. Those who claim to have the answers succeed in only making plain their preconceived notions, even if those notions on the surface appear rational (such as Auclair’s, who at least can make a claim to having rather exceptional knowledge of the club’s inner workings for a media member). The only thing we can say for sure is that we don’t really know the whole story, and I’m not really sure we ever will, because the “truth” is lost amid the rubble of perspectives, opinions, and axes yet to be ground to the handle.
Yes, I hope we get some new signings, but I also feel that the clamor for X or Y is a doomed search for panaceas. If there are problems β I stress the if part non-ironically β with the club, I suspect they’re endemic and immune to the introduction of fresh blood. Would a Fellani single-handedly restore balance to the midfield? Zaha to the forward line? No more than swapping Theo back out to the right on a permanent basis would magically make things better; Theo’s stock as a winger has never been higher than it is now, when he’s being primarily played through the middle. This team is fantastically talented, certainly to a degree that more than merits its standing in the last 16 of the Champions League. Adding one or two more fantastically talented players may help (or hurt, thought probably not), but that is not a complete change of anything. This team will look very similar at the end of January to what it is right now, even with three new signings. We will be forced to dance with the girl we brought, one way or the other, and it’s my sincere hope that any changes for the positive start with the materials on hand. And there is nothing to suggest that those better results are out of the grasp of the players already in the red and white.
I had a nightmare that Arsene quit last night. No real elaboration; he just quit, and it was terrible. It is so very odd to me that people who care as much about the club as I do would view that dream in an entirely different light. But I do my best to not make the logical leap from “odd” to “traitorous,” and I know that many in the drinks do as well, which is why this is the only bar worth visiting on the interwebs. Cheers all.
cdoyle @ 75:
A cracking post! Well said.
Posting from Downunder invariably sees me at the end of drinks when most of you are already akip and my pearls cast only at the remaining … er drunks, apparently. So, reposting from previous drinks …
Yes it was a penalty, and as last defender it was red. I have no complaints. In fact I wish more refs would clamp down on the ridiculous holding that goes on in the penalty area. Well done SzczΔsny for the save.
No complaints either about the quick free kick β¦ TH14 used to do it all the time. Thereβs no excuse for getting caught napping.
Second goal was not offside, just more poor marking.
There was little wrong with Kompanyβs tackle on Jack either, a yellow at most. In fact I suspect Jack himself would have been proud of such a tackle.
Frankly Iβm coming to the conclusion our current squad is not only incapable of matching it with the top 3, but now struggling with 4, 5 and 6 … ie, not good enough by several players. After all this was a Man C without Aguero, Yaya and Nasri β none of whom we could afford on the open market anyway. But they had competent subs to throw on, while we had to pick between an out of form Welshman and a broken-down frog. Where was TR7 again?
How much longer does this have to go on before genuine concerns about the manager’s mind-set have to be taken seriously? We had a golden period early in his tenure, but that was so long ago now. Yes, our slump is undoubtedly due in large part to the money pouring into some clubs, but that doesn’t explain a whole string of poor performances against clubs we should be kicking into touch.
Was anyone less excited than me by the idea of Fab4 returning, at some indeterminate time, to the Grove? You mean, Wenger, when he’s close to retirement and no longer good enough to play for Barca?
Oskar
Was anyone less excited than me by the idea of Fab4 returning, at some indeterminate time, to the Grove? You mean, Wenger, when heβs close to retirement and no longer good enough to play for Barca … but good enough to play for us? This sop to the fans reeks of desperation for something to say from a guy who has no intention of buying any marquee players any time soon.
Oskar
Oskar: Serious question, not at all snarky: In what quarter are you finding Arsenal fans who don’t “take seriously” the manager’s mind-set? Even those most ardently in his corner, in my experience, are at least open to the idea that there might be something wrong, or he’s off it, or whatever. I think what you really mean is that you don’t understand why everyone hasn’t concluded that his time is up, which is another thing entirely.
Thanks Joe.
cdoyle @75,
Some interesting points which i agree with. The board certainly is culpable in some measure but I personally lay most of the “playing staff” problems, and on-field inconsistency at the hands of the individual responsible for that side of the clubs running. Unlike Abramovic, as far as i’m aware, Kroenke et all have no final say in the first eleven or squad chosen, substitutions made and tactics employed! I’m pretty sure that the “round pegs in square holes” experimentation has little to do with them too. Auclair is a descent football journalist (very rare in the modern game) but he’s also a friend of Arsene’s. A modicum of perspective and objectivity as to what he says must be employed when it comes to AFC.
Great write up holic. Not a lot to disagree with there. Top stuff from N7, The Sweeper and Chippy. Special mention to Zico for two thoroughly entertaining reads. 10 mins in Stanβs seat is probably the most use it has had this season. I have also met El Pel on one occasion. I found him fun and a true Arsenal man. He had no false beliefs about his ability and loved the club.
I have pondered all day about the events of Sunday. To be quite honest I thought we were totally outplayed. Yet again we seemed to hit the self destruct button. It started with Kos thinking he was at Twickers and it all went downhill from there. Two sloppy goals conceded left us with a mountain to climb. It got to half time and to be honest I would have taken a 2 nil defeat at that stage. I feared the worst.
In the second half we created very little and had no cutting edge. As I said in the last round of drinks, our movement off the ball scares the hell out of me. At times it was non existent. We seemed slow and lethargic. It bothered me greatly that Citeh were so much sharper and quicker to close us down. The was most evident the way Citeh closed us down at the back. That just forced the long ball up to Theo who regularly out jumped and out muscled Kompany to set up waves of attacks?????? Citeh got their tactics right and sadly we at times just looked clueless.
The one plus from the second half was the fight and effort shown. At least there was some fight on display which was reassuring.
The highlight of the day came at just after six as I entered the Tollie to hook up with fellow holics and chew the fat. Great company from loyal and faithful Gooners. No names needed, you all know who you are. Thank you for your company.
So, where do we go from here? We have a massive week ahead. Swansea and the Chavs will be too difficult games. I shudder to think of the fall out if it all goes wrong.
Just over two weeks of the window left of the window. I would hardly say that I am confident that we will make or even attempt to make the additions that are so desperately required. A look at the bench yesterday tells you how short we are. One can only hope.
See you all at Swansea.
Two difficult games even……………………….
@DanC: I guess my ultimate point is that there isn’t a single viewpoint on Arsenal that isn’t skewed by something. And also that the “truth,” if such a thing exists, is unquestionably complicated to the point at which a proper airing of it would defy summation.
AS them what know a thing or two about the sometimes beautiful game often say keep it simple, decent signings = cover = stronger, fresher, better balanced squad for difficult/crucial/busy run in
Oskar,
I think that your points are clear and many, I’m sure, agree on both sides of the fence.
Wrt the media’s Vox-Pops, don’t take everything you hear about Arsene Wenger and AFC as gospel facts. Just assess what the product is delivering, or not if that may be the case, on the playing field and off it from your point-of-view, and pragmatically assess where the problems lie and may realistically be resolved. After all, we all want the same things in the end for our “club” and not the “temporary” overseers within it, don’t we?! Up the Arse!
Haha re Stan’s seat ST
cdoyle @83,
Spot on! And personally, I can’t wait to hear what Arsene really has to say once his tenure at the “coaching” helm inevitably ends. If he says nothing, he is either a genuinely honourable and loyal man (which I like to think and believe him to be) or he is a major party to what many are purely and solely laying at the door of the majority shareholder and the board?! We may never know precisely but I hope that we one day do. That document is certainly one sporting memΓ³ir that I’ll be purchasing in person!
I’m not at all certain what my view of AW is at present, cdoyle. I’ve been a long-time defender, based on his sound financial management of the club and memories of the golden years when he had an apparent Midas touch when it came to unearthing the absolute best talent (Henry, Vieira, Pires etc) to play alongside the mighty DB10. I have also appreciated the subsequent level playing field disruptions which have seen us slip, unable (so long as sound management prevailed) to compete for equivalent talent, or even to hold the talent we had.
That’s all understandable and explainable.
What are becoming less and less understandable and explainable are his starting team selections, substitution logic (Podolski always off, Rosicky never on), his predilection for French players when looking to buy (not to mention to play, ie Diaby yesterday), his unending search for bargains rather than marquee players in the transfer market, when we are repeatedly told he has considerable money to spend.
I am questioning whether he still has the Midas touch, or whether it has deserted him. For years I would have considered such a question heretical but, without jumping completely into the ‘AW has to go’ camp, I feel it should be a subject of concern that needs to be taken seriously. How would we KNOW if his mental faculties were in fact waning? How long should we keep the faith?
I’m not saying we should beg fixers like Redknapp or Allardyce to sort our problems, but what if Pep Guardiola were available, and interested? I admit I’d be tempted right now.
Oskar
Stevie mate,
I am quietly confident that the Boss is beavering away behind the scenes re Transfer window.
I am of the belief tht all is quiet because he gets gazumped so many times, he is trying to stay out of the headlines.
I have faith that he KNOWS we need to strengthen and he is doing all he can to bring in new QUALITY players.
But he won’t pay over the odds,you have to get value,otherwise the exercise is pointless.
You only have to look at the mad spending spree of Dalgleish at Liverpool with the proceeds of the Torres sale,to see that a fool and his money are soon parted.
So if it means going without new players in Jan,because of price/value and nothing else,then i can live with that.
I don’t want 2nd raters for a short term fix,nor does anyone else.
What we have got is far from perfect, as is plain to see,but i would rather the Dosh was spent wisely and well,than badly and in panic,to appease the baying of the pack.
If that means waiting till the summer,then so be it.
Cheers
The Sweeper.
Great post Holic, and a inspiring collection of drinks above.
I know many of you do not like twitter rumors, but I was looking desperately to find something Arsenal related to help me get some sleep. Unfortunately, all I’ve found is bad news, and it is from people usually spot on.
Strong rumors that Everton is in talks to sign Toulouse midfielder Etienne Capoue. Around 10m.
That is related to Fellaini to Cuntski, which is as close as next week.
M’Vila to QPR.
Lioc Remy to NewCastle, done deal, apparently.
Atletico Madrid striker Falcao has reportedly agreed to join Chelsea in the summer. (Source: Radio RMC)
All the news directly considering Arsenal are bad either. Some stuff about Rosicky to Eveton, following the latest discrepancy with Arsene?!?!
Sorry for this kind of info, but as they say… it is darkest before the dawn.
Lurky. Remy is having a medical at QPR on Tuesdat morning. Falcao has apparently said that he wants ti go to PSG. Two examples of why I believe nothing until it is official.
Clive. Great points and I hope you are right. Canβt say I am as confident as you at the moment. The one problem I do have is the value for money bit. I of course want us to get value for money. I am just not too sure that AW has the right idea of value for money. When selling players he will refuse to let those go accept for top money. That is of course right. But having taken that stance I do think there is a place for compromise a bit when making offers. I do not like it when it appears that we lose out on players for relatively small amounts because a compromise can not be reached. Some times we just need to go that little bit extra to close a deal.
As I said, I sincerely hope you are right.
A late drop in, having read through the drinks up to where DanC and cdoyle’s chat starts – have to leave that dor tonorrow.
Some excellent drinks up there from zico, matt(2), Joe, and brilliant work from N7.
Good match report Guvnor, and a special mention for
Zico’s tour report. Really enjoyed reading that.
Wind, Sorry to leave you out of my obs from yesterday. Must be ‘cos I missed most of your appearance as, having provided him with a perfect path to the bogs through a ridiculously crowded Tollie, Zico “led” me back to our start point via the northern route, wgich magically finished up at the far end of the bar. Well, noone was getting out of the way, were they.
By the time we rejoined the huddle it was time to go. π
This has really turned into a bit of a “Wind Digest”, I know, but the drinks above have said just about everything worth saying.
Said battle was indeed crowded, Trev, and negotiating a path to the pissoir was something that thankfully I only had to effect once π
Heh, looked for you to bestow a final set of birthday felicitations Holic, only to find you, and the hat, gone ! π
Heh, nearly forgot the hat. Had to return to retrieve it having left for the match.
Just looked in to see the title of your newest piece, ‘holic. Rather mild compared to what I was fearing it could be, i.e., “I just can’t take it anymore.” π
Still haven’t watched the highlights of the game, but I saw only the 1st half and apart from Jack & Thomas’ fight in them, I don’t think that would translate well over in them. I’m not sure I’m up for watching the whole of the 2nd half π ) and I get the gist of Kompany’s Red Card along with our effort cleared over the line, I’ll see how I feel in about 12 hours.
Zico (Parts 1 & 2), N7 Gooner, Matt (2), cdoyle, Joe, all excellent reads worthy of anyone’s backdrink π
Trev @ 93, no worries mate π ahh, you took the Zico route, that explains it π He seemed in control of all his motor functions but whatever, the final pint I had from Mike (no idea what it was) had me running from the Tollie to Seven Sisters Rd! 8)
Still happy I got to see all the Holics & the Birthday Celebrant that were at the Tollie on Sunday, hoping to meet Lars, Top Man Snowy & Trev if he can (hopefully) make it again along with Steve T for the 1st time on Wednesday π Anyone else who’s going (I’m looking at you Delia π , make yourself known if you’ll be in the Tollie.
True Storey, you made quite an impression on me that Thursday evening in the Tollie, if you’re at Wednesday’s game, I’d love to have a chat with you pre or post game (more likely pre although I can do post) on why you feel Wenger needs to bow out gracefully/we need a change at the helm. I know EVERYONE’S general reasons from the irrational to the logical but you’re the 1st regular from the Pro-ArsΓ¨ne side I think who’s come out (Down Wolfie) and said that they feel that he needs to go, would just like to know why, maybe it will help resolve my conflicted thoughts, for better or worse.
Zico, excellent ‘lengthy’ efforts, I…uh… trained you well during the minute or two we chatted on Sunday 8)
Lars, you called Monday’s snow in the UK a Snowstorm?! Have you really been living in Sweden or are you a scandinavian in disguise? π
Anyone seen NorCal about recently? Normally he’d be here in the aftermath of a game and the same goes for abb, wonder if they had to work double shifts in their respective medical based professions keeping them from their usual contributions here, when duty calls I suppose π
And FunGunner, if you’re reading but not posting for now, don’t stay away too long eh, or I’ll have to find you on Sian’s ibelieveinarsenal blog π (Holic, I always wonder when you had the list of your recommended Arsenal blogs [if its there I can’t see it on the Blackberry] why Sian’s wasn’t there at one point, do you two have some sort of ‘beef’ with each other? π
‘Ollies it’, then falls asleep.
Morning all.
Clive: shrewd words as ever.
Well in, Derrck. Drilled it.
*gets Trev’s coat and leaves….
LO@90: Remy to Newcastle not a done deal apparently. Pardew gazumped by ‘arry at the last minute. No wonder AW wants to play his cards close to his chest.
Morning Ned
trust you are well,
although the Arse are doing their very best to cause us serious heartburn at the moment.
Stevie T,
Don’t disagree one iota re your point about a few extra shekels being offered to get the right man.
A million here or there is nothing in the scheme of things,but it is when it gets beyond that,that i would prefer common sense to prevail.
First of all, my calling it a snowstorm was quite sarcastic which I thought was quite clear but apparently not π It wasn’t even snowing at the time, but if you were to believe what was said online and in some news reports the whole country had been shut down by the worst storm since the dawn of time.
As for Arsene Wenger, I still can not believe that a man who so completely changed the entire game in England, a man who once had to get off the team bus to throw up because he was so upset over the way his team had played would not hurt just as much as we do about the bad performances. I find it quite impossible to believe that he can not see that we are not doing as well as we probably could. It just doesn’t add up, which is why I still believe that the main culprits in this are the board. There is of course the argument that even a genius can fall victim to believing his own hype and become a megalomaniac madman and if that (hypothetically speaking) would be the case then he need to go and go now but I don’t think that is the case. I mean if it was, wouldn’t the board have sacked him by now?
And what is even worse…
If those of us who think it is the board who are at fault for the under-investment are right and Arsene goes, then I put this rather scary question to you all:
How on earth is this board then going to find a decent replacement for Arsene?
If Arsene is being held back and not given enough money by the board, would they then even try to get someone like, for example, Guardiola or Jurgen Klopp? Or would they go for people like Dowie, Colin Wanker, Martin Jol or, perish the thought, Sam Allardyce? I know what I think and it is not a comforting thought.
Lars. What you have to realise is this. This is England. This is the UK. Weather wise, anything other than 60 degrees and drizzle and the UK hits panic mode. When a rail network can shut down because of the wrong type of leaves then you know that this is not a part of the world geared up to deal with anything slightly adverse.
Re AW. I am fully with you and the belief that a lot of the current problems are at board level. Personally, what I would like to eventually see is Arsene take a seat on that board. I think he is an ideal man to make that move and the club would benefit no end. Not sure of the timing but it is something I would support.
Steve: Heh, we have the same tendency in Sweden too although probably not quite as bad as it is here.
Steve: while I can certainly see your point and also agree that Arsene would probably be a great board member, I think one problem would be that it would make the job of his successor as manager almost impossible. Any adverse result would be turned into a “when is Arsene going to step back into the managerial seat?” theme in the media.
Lars:
I can’t understand the argument in relation to the Board not funding investment. Wenger has categorically said he has money to invest. Gazidis has said the same. The money is there.
For me, I just think he’s biding his time until the latter end of the window before he invests to avoid being gazumped (again!). I also do think that he wants to spend money sensibly and I think Wenger would be the same even if Usmanov was the majority owner and was throwing buckets of money at him. And I don’t think that he’s just a conservative type of person: for example, the transfer fee he paid for TH14 equates to approx 26m in todays money, furthermore he did apparently table a bid of 40m for Goetze – so I do believe that he will spend money when he believes he gets value for it. But most of the large transfers in these times do not represent value.
I can see him moving upstairs but I also see him recruiting his successor and being a sort of guardian angel in the coming years. I can’t see him leaving the club, or going way, simply because he’s had ample opportunity to do so already. I honestly think he just has this love for the club that has seen him remain completely loyal even during bleaker times when money was much tighter and when we were hamstrung by the commercial deals (I know we still are, but were at the end of that tightrope now and there’s new money on the horizon). Of course, some people will say that its easy to be loyal when your paid such a high salary, and all I have to say in that context was if it came down to money only, Wenger could easily earn much much more elsewhere.
Some terrific posts above, good to see reasoned debate and a lot of love for the club coming from all ends of the spectrum.
Lars – I tend to agree that the gap between the Wenger of 10 years ago and the picture painted by the nay-sayers today is simply too great to be plausible.
There are a range of arguments commonly deployed against Arsene, some of which I find marginally plausible (that he simply has too much responsibility at the club and is overstretched), others of which I find contemptible (that he has somehow gone mad, or otherwise cracked under the pressure).
What I do not for a moment believe (and this is just me, others are free to disagree) is that 8 years ago our manager suddenly and irrevocably developed a catastrophic emotional aversion to spending money, entirely at odds with his own previous behavior and the needs of the team. I cannot think of another football manager in history who has ever fallen prey to this syndrome, and I cannot see why the board would continue tolerate it all these years later, with the team clearly in decline, empty seats appearing in the stadium and tens of millions allegedly available to spend. Some might say that the board are happy to keep the money, but businesses rarely like to leave capital undeployed: if they are truly happy to see the transfer pot left untouched then that would suggest that they have other plans for those funds.
As someone pointed out above, Arsene’s own comments hint that he controls the purse strings. But I would suggest that it is unwise to take the manager’s comments to the media literally: it is quite clear that he does not feel obliged to give them the truth, and it is equally clear that he is an honourable man who sees out his contracts and would never publicly lift the lid on what goes on behind the scenes. Or, to put it another way, clearly he absolutely did not want to sell Cesc, Nasri or RVP. And yet they left. Either he was dishonest with the press or someone else took the decision not to hold those three players to their contracts/offer them a fortune from the great legendary pot of Arsenal spending money in order to induce them to stay.
What will be interesting is to watch what happens when Arsene departs, assuming he does so at a time of his own choosing: whether the next manager is able to spend, how much he is able to spend and whether the spending continues beyond an initial war-chest set aside by his predecessor. Only then will we really know the truth of what has actually been going on with our finances, and until that time everything you read on the internet (including my own musings above) will remain pure conjecture.
I think that latter point is worth bearing in mind when you find yourself confronted by blogs/op-ed pieces which attempt to crucify our manager: the author is almost certainly not party to the internal affairs of Arsenal FC and will simply be hazarding a guess. Some of the absolute, tub-thumping moral certainty I have witnessed of late, the abuse of Wenger and cursing of his name, would suggest to me that certain bloggers have a clear inside line to the very heart of the club, and are in a position to act as judge, jury and executioner. Opinions of this strength, based on presumption and guesswork, are the mark of an immature mind and, perhaps, a desire to believe that all our problems can be solved if only the manager could be removed.
I should add to all of the above that I think Arsene needs to bear some measure of criticism, regardless of his ability to control the transfer pot, or lack thereof. Some of his substitutions are baffling, his insistence on deploying certain players out of position when the side are struggling is troubling and his endless rolling out of the same infuriating comments each and every transfer window has me (and others I’m sure) tearing my hair out. He certainly does not make life easy for himself, or for us and I can absolutely see why some make the argument that it is time for a change, even if I do not agree with it.
Despite all that, I remain behind him. I believe that the stadium move was always bound to impact our spending power for a time (how could it not?), and I do not believe that any other manager in the game would have preserved our top 4 status given the available resources over the last 8 years. If those resources are about to be expanded then I think Wenger has more than earned the right to be the person to spend the fruits of his labour and our patience. I just pray that said expansion of resources is imminent, because we appear to be reaching the point where a philosophy of “make do and mend” is not enough to maintain our position.
In the mean time, I hope that the team are able to pull together, because they are going to need to do so if we are to achieve our goals this term. It is as thin a squad as we have had in years, so key members of the playing staff are going to need to raise their game and lead by example. Jack is showing them the way, I can only hope that two or three others choose to follow his example.
Oh, and I back us to knock Swansea out tomorrow night.
COYG.
Joe – you make a great point about the manager’s loyalty.
It boils my blood to hear people slag off Wenger and defend Van Persie in the same sentence.
We’re supposed to be Arsenal fans. I will take a flawed manager who loves the club and eschews multiple opportunities to leave over a genius centre forward who fcuks off to play for Man Utd any day of the week.
A lot of talk about the quality being out there, but are the players available? I guess everyone is available at the right price but prices are now inflated by you know who. (That picture of the City fans holding up their banner really sticks in my craw – don’t they have anything between the ears? Ticket prices have been a monstrosity for years but don’t they know their ground’s prices are subsidised?)
Some of the players we’re being linked with like Biglia and Zaha are unconvincing (Championship quality).
Zellaini would be the real deal but is he available? And if so, I imagine the price would be prohibitive, especially if Chelsea are in the frame.
I was impressed with Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa when he played against us – both times – he would be a great squad player (CB, RB and DM). And still only 23.
David Villa is certainly not available.
And the Cesc comment must be some sort of AW joke surely?
I’m agreed the current squad is not strong enough but there’s no point clutching at straws.
As for Perry Groves, sorry about this, I know he’s a bit of a cult hero, but he was a chicken-brained player and it doesn’t sound like anything has improved since.
N7 – great post @111. I think the three players you mention left for different reasons – Cesc because of emotional ties/medals; Nasri for money; RvP because he could see he was getting towards the end of his career and that the squad at Arsenal would not be able to deliver any medals.
Just to add – if players have decided they want to go, no manager in the world can stop them.
Just to add, I have found myself wondering lately if there isn’t some alternative universe out there where RVP is not unjustly sent off in the Nou Camp, Arsenal knock out Barcelona and then latterly surge to the Carling Cup.
Cesc is convinced by these achievements to stay another season, as is Nasri, RVP hits his form of last year and we pick up a major honour, fired to glory by the goals of RVP and the sorcery of Fabregas (what a tragedy that we never got to see those two on song together).
I suppose it would probably sit next door to the universe in which Eduardo didn’t break his leg, maybe two down from the one where Dennis tucked his FA Cup semi pen.
Ifs, buts and maybes, but sometimes fate is truly cruel. And I think that Nou Camp refereeing travesty was the tipping point which caused the rapid disintegration of what was a pretty handy Arsenal side that sadly never achieved anywhere near its potential.
Morning All,
Cdoyle @75,
Superb post. My sense for some time, and, as you say, it can only be a sense, is that Phillipe Auclair is right in laying responsibility for confusion and inaction at the feet of the board and our absent owner.
We do need a more physical presence in the Premier League and whether that can be coaxed out of our present playing staff, as you would like to see, I am not sure. Personally, I think we need additions.
But I agree with you also, that we are clutching at straws to think that one or two new players is going to address the broader malaise that currently affects us.
The whole mental approach needs to be altered. We need lots of Jack Wilsheres who clearly really care and who want to take responsibility rather than pass it to someone, anyone else.
At the moment, the team only seems to perform as a last resort. How many times do we claw ourselves back into contention, both within a single game, or in terms of our league position, only to pass up on the resulting advantage when it has been gained.
How many times do we underestimate “lesser” opposition and play with complacency, having said all week in various interviews that we would be careful not to do just that.
I don’t want to read the captain’s notes in the “matchday magazine” – programme, in old money – and see that we started against X or Y much too slowly and didn’t create enough chances, and we didn’t really know why.
I want to see the captain, on the pitch, sorting players out and telling them to bloody well speed up a bit if they are playing too slowly.
Not that difficult, is it?
Thomas Vermaelen, to be fair to him, has been showing much better form lately, but I wonder is he really a leader and an organiser.
And that comes back to the main thrust of ‘cdoyle’s’ post.
Where is the leadership supposed to be coming from in the club ?
No, we don’t know for sure, and that is why we clutch at our own individual straws, hoping to pull the magic ingredient out of the hat.
Mixed metaphors ? Me ?!
So many great looking posts up there – back now to catch up again.
Trev – that’s an absolutely spot on point about the players only performing as a last resort.
You need only look at the Reading game in the Carling Cup to see that. I know it wasn’t the first team, but the disparate levels of effort between the first hour of the match and the second were absolutely stunning – as wide as I ever think I’ve seen in football.
Re: Tommy V, I thought there were signs on Sunday of his assuming a proper leadership role. In addition to quite clearly telling Dean exactly what he thought of him, he could also be seen in the TV footage (if you’ll pardon the pun) organising those around him and, at one point, seemingly giving Podolski a bit of a bollocking (“Lukas – that’s your job” was what it looked like). More of this please, skipper.
This is why we all should appreciate Diaby’s desire and hard work to fight, never stop and try to get back over and over this past few years.
He could have easily finished like this.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2262486/Michael-Johnson-picture–Manchester-City-youngster-takeaway.html
Sleep, eat, collect your paycheck.
Morning peeps.
Funny stuff over on Arseblog today, well worth a butchers.
N7 and Joe, cheers for your replies. Not much more to add for me.
Trev@117: great stuff.
N7 @various – simply bang on the money.
If, indeed, there is any money ….. π
Cheers Lars,
And good work yourself, considering you must still be roundly sozzled. π
N7, in one of those alternative universes I’m a Dutch guy living in Holloway. π
H2H. – yep, Bloggs on top form.
Ollie,
Last time I spoke to Bloggs I said that he wouldn’t remember me by name, but he said he did (the liar!).
Anyway, he did seem to, so would you please heap my compliments on him for today’s superb silliness if you are over amongst the ‘arses’, as arses, thank God, remain impenetrable to me.
Cheers. π
H2H – you are Ian Holloway ???
N7 – not sure what you’re taking at the moment, but you’re coming up with some very good stuff. I think about that alternative universe very frequently. Despite all the shit being heaped on Arsene at the moment, if there’s anyone out there who doesn’t believe that the current squad plus Percy and Cesc would do EVEN BETTER than top three, one trophy and 20 Ollie G goals…..then they’re not walking on the sunny side. π
We’ve attracted many world class talents to Arsenal. We have lost too many key contributors (Cole, Cesc, Nasri, Song, Percy, Ade, Hleb) principally for “more money”. The solution is pretty simple and it isn’t about changing the manager, being the best we can be with current resources or looking at Swansea and saying “wow, they’re a great example we should be like them”.
dkgooner @ 114 – don’t believe the propaganda. Percy left for the money. Manure paid 70M for a 29 year old player who’d played one good, full season. If City win the league this season, that will look like a very poor decision.
“Some of the absolute, tub-thumping moral certainty I have witnessed of late, the abuse of Wenger and cursing of his name, would suggest to me that certain bloggers have a clear inside line to the very heart of the club, and are in a position to act as judge, jury and executioner. Opinions of this strength, based on presumption and guesswork, are the mark of an immature mind and, perhaps, a desire to believe that all our problems can be solved if only the manager could be removed.” BANG ON N7. Arrow to the heart, young man.
Sadly there are many out there who take the bait, swallow the hook, wriggle around and scare the rest of the shoal. I met many of these wrigglers after the game you mentioned in Barcelona. That night was one of the most striking in forcibly reminding me that all Gooners are not Holic quality.
Wind @ 98. TS wasn’t the first regular from the pro-Wenger camp to conclude that it is time for him to step aside. I’m just satisfied to finally have a bit of company on that argument.
Many happy returns ‘Holic. I hope things are well with the rest of you lot.
BMBD.
Sweeper @ 89 – no doubt in my mind that the boss’s feet are pedaling like hell under the surface of the pond. I expect so see two outfield players and a keeper come in.
Clearly it isn’t quite as easy as many imply, Arsene said prior to the summer window closing “We will bring in two more….”. He said it so confidently that he must have felt both signings were “there”. They still didn’t happen for reasons that will likely never be divulged unless AW writes his book.
Anyone who suggests that the guy doesn’t KNOW (despite what he might say with a press mic wedged up his left nostril) that the squad is light of at least two genuine world class talents is smoking the wrong stuff, imbibing the wrong Glen or “Painting it Black” when it should be painted red.
But the incomers DO need to be quality – i.e. technically skilled players. They are the kind of players that clubs like to keep, and only the Rich Men’s Plaything’s clubs, or those doing much better on sponsorship/gate revenues/TV income than Arsenal, can (easily) draft.
“I had a nightmare that Arsene quit last night. No real elaboration; he just quit, and it was terrible.”
You probably won’t believe me, but I dreamt two nights ago that we won this years CL. I woke up totally elated, ready to type “See, told you so!” into Goonerholic. Then reality dawned. It too, was terrible. (But I’m sure, not as bad a your nightmare.)
There’s nothing like a very boring work telcon for catching up…….
So many top quality drinks above, Lars, N7 and BTM all spoke shades of my mind on Arsene.
My computer is on the fritz and I’ve had to re-type this peice a number of times (aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrggghhhhh) I’ll try to post this in parts as to not lose it all again.
1
Too many great drinks above to mention, a fine discussion gents.
I find myself a little confused lately when it comes to the blame game being played around the misfortunes of our beloved club la. Our many success’ under our current manager have raised not only our profile, but also our expectations. I’m not going to cry about everything being shit and that we’re are in a rut and we’re never going to win a trophey again and that the world as we know it is coming to an end, because it’s not. There are many supporters of clubs that would swap with us in a heartbeat, but we are not just any old club, we are the Arsenal and even the most optimisic, glass half half, rose tinted bespectacled among us must surely see that all is not quite how it should be in the Goonerverse.
I would not consider myself an ITK person, so the following opinions have been garned from extrapulation of pieces I have read here and there and what I have seen transpiring on the field of play over the last few months.
I read with great interest all opinions on this fine blog, however I’m a bit perplexed as to why many seem to feel our current predicadiment can be blamed on the board. I’m sure trhey are culpable to a certain degree, but I’m not sure if the finger can be solely pointed at them.
to be continued……
2
Blame Stan for being an absent owner and you’ll hear nothing from me, even though I’m not so sure that’s such a bad thing. Would you prefer an Abromovitch or God forbid Vencky’s style custodian? Blame the board for being unclear about how much dosh there is to invest or because of their poor communication skills. If you are so inclined then I suppose you could even blame them that we lost many of our star players due to rigid salary structure, failure to invest, or basic direction they were heading in (famous quote). But whatever you thought of our summer dealings (I personaly thought we fudged it up) the moment that the transfer window closed, the board went back to doing whatever it is that they are not informing us about doing and the team is left to do the talking on the pitch.
Players were shipped out, some brought in and others held onto to bolster the squad, from day one we all had our misgivings about what had transpired, but when the season starts it was up to those players to do the business. If I take a step back and look at our squad from a neutral perspective (hard, but not impossible) then I can honestly say that this is a team that (on paper anyway) should be able to mix it up with the best of them. This is cleary not the case, but why?
to be cont’d……..
I see the FA are rewriting their own rules every day…. or have some very funny specs.
@ Ollie 137
I believe the FA were alerted to the fact that Mike Dean actually gave us a decision on Sunday and have moved rapidly to correct the oversight.
heh N7. That’s the only rational explanation indeed.
3
As far as my untrained eye can see, we seem to be playing in a formation that was designed to get the best out of players that are long since departed. Our attack is now often toothless, sometimes going almost an entire 90 minutes hardly troubling the oppositions keeper, our midfield is costantly running into walls, Steve T mentioned that the lack of movement against Citeh was worrying, I think it’s been frieghtening all season. Our defence looks sometimes all at sea, they are deploying a zonal marking system were every zone is covered behalf from the one that the opposition score from, sometimes it’s just embarrassing.
We’ve had players on the field clearly jaded, while replacements sit twiddling their thumbs on the bench or unable to make the squad. Ofcourse I admit I don’t see the players day in and day out on the training field, but sometimes I wonder if the boss does either. There has been a few times this season that the team sheet has gone up pre game and I have literaly cringed. In form players been left out, with ones that were not ready been brought in. Could somebody please tell me what Diaby has got on Wenger? Is it comprimising pictures or documents revealing secrets of a delicate nature? Surely it has to be something. How else could you possibly explain his persistance in a player that can’t last more then a few games a season or the belief that, contary to all the evidence that he will be able to rely on him. I don’t get it.
to be cont’d…………
Wind
I won’t be there tomorrow evening. I was up for just Tollying but I have a family matter that requires my attention so I won’t even get to watch the game live in that high quality bastion of sports presentation know as ESPN. Hey Ho.
I predict that we’ll finally give Swansea that lesson in football that is long overdue and you can put that down to nothing more scientific than blind optimism.
We shall save the Wenger discussion for another occasion but put very simply I think the relationship has run its course.
Fine debate above.
I maintain it comes down to bollocks.
The bollocks to want to win at every level in the club.
The bollocks to take a risk in the market.
The bollocks to tell a good player that he has a contract and he’ll see it out.
The bollocks to make it so unpleasant and uncomfortable for players who are no longer wanted but are hanging around on big salaries that they do take an early opportunity to leave.
The bollocks to give 100% on the field (LJW exonerated there).
This club requires not only the long awaited cash injection but also a testosterone injection.
What a JOKE !
A letter from the FA
Dear Arsenal
We are pleased to annouce that Mr Kompany never dived two footed into a tackle on Mr Wilshere even thou TV replays show that he clearly did. If and thats a big IF, if Mr Kompany had broken mr Wilshere leg we may of had to up hold the red card. Luckly the footballing gods were with Mr Wilshere and he still has two legs intact so we see no reason to up-hold the red card.
Mr Dean was totally off his head when he gave you a decision on Sunday. Regardless of the seven barrels of S**T kicked out of your young man by all of insundary in a blue shirt by no means take this as a negative as it will happen quite often.
I know the wound is deep but please just let us add a little salt and rub it in.
Kind Regards
Very old F**ks who know sweet F.A
Heavier work schedule preventing such regular visits to Goonerholic. π
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BsG7zXh8kME/TfQ52X7HlPI/AAAAAAAAAIY/lSsr7AUlSEE/s1600/Carrying-a-Heavy-Load.png
COYG
π
bathgooner
There’s a lot of truth in that post.
I think we can also add: the bollocks not to sell your best player to Man U-fucking-nited.
I know there was good money on offer, but we should have stuck him in a sack and drowned him before sending him to Old Trafford. Make him see out his contract. Subsidise his wages at Juve. I don’t care, but don’t hand him over to that lot.
FA. Cowards.
Perhaps I’m biased, but the replays show w/o a doubt that Kompany left his feet, and went in 2 footed, not one – only because the second foot trailed a bit. Studs up all the way. FFS he JUMPED into it. That tackle was an ankle-breaker save for JW sipping/sliding out of the way. Sure he got the ball, but that doesn’t make a dangerous tackle okey-dokey and I’m pretty sure thats in the rule book.
Whatevers … just glad Jack is not injured or worse.
Homer
Take a look at this: http://cadfael.tv/image/src/1358098627491.gif
The FA are jokers.
According to the FA, overruling a red card that was not given is not possible because that would undermine the referees.
How can it then be possible to remove a red card without undermining the referees?
I am all in favour of rescinding wrongly awarded cards, but then why on earth are they still claiming that they can not ban players post-match if the referee has seen the situation? I mean, surely it can’t be beause they want to keep star players on the pitch as much as possible at all cost, right? After all, all the FA and the Premier League ever do is with the best interest of the game in mind, isn’t it? Oh, sorry, what was that? Pigs flying? Hell freezing over? Whatever could you mean by that…
4 (if you’re still with me grab a drinky poo’s)
Another thing which is beyond my realms of understanding is the constant need to play players in positions they clearly struggle in, the square peg round hole conundrum. Ramsey, a player who has been widely critisised in the past, was lauded for his performance against Citeh. Wow what a shock, he played where he’s best and it yielded results, stop the f’ing press! Feo didn’t get a look in and Santi was about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike, why? Well, it’s not exactly rocket science, is it? But this is not just an observation from the weekends adventure, it’s been happening all season.
Finally the noises coming out of the club are worrying, we have heard that the players were jaded when the season was in it’s infancy, that the players had forgotten how good they are, that they lacked confidence and lately that they were scared of the atmosphere at home (diddums).
Can we really blame the board for all these obvious shortcomings? I think not.
Please don’t see this as a “I luv da bored, Wanger oot” post, because that’s not my intention. I, like Lars, find it hard to believe that such an intellegent man can’t see what many of us can, my concern is weather or not he can do anything to put us back on track. I truly hope he can and I feel that he has earned the right to be given the chance to rectify the situation. There has been no better Arsenal manager then he in my lifetime and there might not be a better one after him, I will (and so should we all) be forever grateful to him for all he has achieved and where he has taken this great club, but as in everyting in life change is inevitable and unstopable. If the great man’s time has come. then so be it, we will move on and to think that there is no-one that can fill his shoes is short sighted, we will prevail.
After cooling off a bit, just to get this off my chest:
Everyone knows there’s A LOT of shirt tugging, grabbing, pushing and shoving in the box on dead balls. Sure, Kos overdid it bringing Dzeko down and he was wrong for doing it. (And for the record, that cheating fooking bastard made meal of it and fell to the pitch like he’d been shot with an elephant gun.)
So … Mike The-Dim-Wit Dean decides that today, he’ll do things a bit differently. Make a point and call that a foul. Not only a foul, but denial of a clear goal scoring opportunity despite the fact that the fouled player did NOT have possession of the ball. Yes, yes … that sounds perfect.
Look: a foul in the box – clearly; a penalty – surely; a yellow card – definitely. But a straight red card? I still say harsh, uncalled for and wrong.
And its making my blood boil that all these nitwits in the blogosphere are self-riteously declaring that yes yes, Dean got that one right, no doubt. “By the book” they say.
Well I call BS on that. The team did themselves no favors and played poorly. That call, however, was screwed up.
Despite a few negative posts recently, I’m actually a huge AW fan. Really. I’m off now.
N7, i hadn’t even seen that little clip! Just going from memory from Sunday. Looks uglier from that angle. And Dean was standing five feet away! Dangerous tackles … if I’m not mistaken there’s some judgment involved by the referee on those. (If you watch, that Garcia guy for Citeh cringes when Kompany jumps in.)
Still, glad Jack didn’t end up stretchered off.
Cheers all.
Tommy R sidelined with a calf injury. May explain Sunday.
Also some very interesting comments from Arsene on the sky web site re spending.
Just found some time before I hit the sack to catch up on the drinks, some truly uplifting and thoughtful posts
Cheers Dr Z, N7 et al
I really hope AW brings a few players in, at least one. Otherwise there could be quite a fallout
Homer. He Fucking rugby tackled him. He had both arms wrapped round him. Off course it is a pen. Do that on the edge of the 6 yard box and you have to be bloody lucky to stay on. If it is not a goal scoring opportunity then why did he do it? Kos knows he got it wrong. Now put it to bed and forget about it. Move on.
Some top quality stuff above people.
Did the FA rescind the card just to massage just to massage Hansen’s ego?
Lars, they’d never have rescinded that card over here, not because of referee undermining but because they would have said it was a worthy red card, whether borderline or not.
At the same time, they do review decisions in all circumstances, whether the referee has given a yellow, a red or nothing, you could still get a lengthy ban or have your card rescinded.
And you don’t hear any FA or ref complaining about being undermined.
And also what Steve T said, I don’t think there’s much of a debate to be had. I mean, OK, maybe Mike Dean wouldn’t have given that sort of decision against Man U, especially at Old Trafford, but that’s more due to Mike Dean being Mike Dean.
You’d have to dig pretty deep to undermine Mike Dean. Useless slaphead.
As for the FA, meh.
Homer.
Loath as I am to say it, but I’m afraid grasshopper got that one right, it’s about time that refs finally took action against the shirt pulling and holding in the box, just a shame that it was one of our lads that was on the end of that decision. It was a foul, he had to go. I just hope that other ref’s are now consistant with that rule………
Yeah, I know.
Bath @ #142
What a load if bollox!
With apologies in advance (I’m here all week)
*of*
Bollox!
Heh, you’re here all weak. π
Is your tome into print yet H2H ;-). Some excellent points and agree 100 % with where you are coming from. Also N7 gooner tip top mate.
We all know that Mike Dean likes nothing better than brandishing out cards..yellow or red, and even better if they are to Arsenal players. I trust before the game the management reminded the players of this…..
errr.
That knobhead Hansen coming out and ridiculing the Kompany red card only enhances my view that Dean got that one right. I’m surprised that Hansen had the time to stop admiring himself in the mirror and actually watch the game.
…at the knees.
Top read H2H – ta.
Some great posts above H2H, Homer, Lars, N7, Ollie et al.
Outside the context of the (lack of) investment in squad debate — which if we are to be honest we don’t have the information about what really the contributing factors are, this lack of insight could be the result of either a very clever media policy of obfuscation by the club (and thereby hiding a less than salubrious financial state lest we alarm the prospective investors just when the commercial deals are up for renewal) or just a giant PR cluster-f*** all around — the thing that has really troubled many of us Arsenal and Arsene supporters is the repetition of a kind of tactical-personnel shortcomings that may indicate that Arsene is stuck at a place and for one reason or another cannot innovate-motivate-inspire his way out of it. His body language and his increasingly tortuous comments in the press reminds you of one of those patriarchs in the nineteenth century novels trying to hold his family together against the grain of time and despite his own failing abilities.
I said for one reason or another: but the reason could be as simple as failing health added to the strains he has put on himself dedicating his polymath talents in all different aspects of running the club. I know the on-the-field success records do not justify my saying so, but in my humble opinion he has been the best ‘football manager’ of this very young century in terms of what he has contributed to and what he has achieved in all different aspects of the game: winning, playing styles, identifying talents, mentoring talents, organizing scouting, visionary steps on fitness and diets, planning and designing a new stadium etc. etc.
It could just be he can no longer do all of these and he needs more help than before but is too proud to admit it even to himself. And it might be the board sees no reason to encourage him to delegate as they really have to deal with one leader who also becomes the face of the club. That is a great idea as long as the level of on-the-field performances are maintained.
In other words: maybe, just maybe, we can expect a refreshed and rejuvenated Arsene and Arsenal with more of what Arsene does delegated around. For instance, he identifies a set of targets in transfer market and some other folks are responsible for making them happen (in a financially responsive manner, of course). Because otherwise we would end up accelerating the inevitable separation of a great club from its greatest manager in a manner that is deserved by neither.
Praying Rev AL…….I think we should all join in the way things are at the moment. There isn’t a spare bob or two in the collection box to help fund a new player perhaps π
For instance, he identifies a set of targets in the (sic) transfer market and some other folks are responsible for making them happen
Erm, isn’t that what Dick Law and Ivan’s lot are meant to do?
Uply – am lighting a candle as I type.
Having now seen the Kompany challenge from a different perspective to what I had in the upper tier I no longer think it was ridiculous to give him red.
Interesting that the challenge looks less sinister according to the angle that you see it from.
My view is that had the challenge been in
(a) the first 10 minutes he would not have given him a red
(b) Vidic at Old Trafford he would not have even given a yellow
Mike Dean. See you next tuesday.
ziiiiiiiiiiiiiico!
Good stuff Doc Faus’.
To delegate is a major part of management, but alas not one of AW’s strong points.
2014 is the year when everything comes together, all the stars align in one clear burst of light for us to see. it’s all written a few years back when decisions have to be made regarding the future path of Arsenal.
The FFP, new stadium debts, commercial deals, and last but not least, Arsene’s contract. What one needs is patience.
4th place finish is a calculated risk, necessity, by the clever man Arsene. If you have to blame him for the sorry state of performances on the pitch, I believe he has too much trust on his pet players who left for one reason or another. That desire of true great professionals is being underestimated by our manager more than once. The most worrying sign is Arsene shows doubts about his ‘plan’, being thrown off the balance by his own confidence at the team. The infectious disease of a weak human spirit is spreading among the players. Except Jack and Szcz I dare say.
What’s to be done ? We absolutely need someone who can lead by example in the middle of the field, who fights besides JW, a leader.
Zico @ 165: Maybe — and btw, not to be pedantic and all but isn’t the appropriate usage of “sic” supposed to be bracketed ( [sic] ) or parenthesized (sic) ? π — that is what those people you name are supposed to do, but based on what we read and hear (often from Herr Horse the Arsene’s mouth ) it seems to be that Arsene himself has been handling most of it, at least the whole Economics of the deals.
Oh don’t get me wrong SteveT. Not saying Kos didn’t mug him, was clearly and utterly in the wrong, and fouled the player.
You’re surely right – its best left in the past. Speaking of which, I recall a game a few years back when the good guys came back from being down 2-1 after being reduced to 10 men to win 3-2. Diaby and RVP making it happen i think. Blackburn … maybe Birmingham City. Ahh, I forget now!
BTW – I’ve still heard no convincing argument how a straight red lie, based on the fact that Dzko didn’t have the ball thus a “clear goal scoring opportunity” could not have existed. Not clear at least, if one really seeks to adhere to the letter of the law. That’s like saying – while I was in the same pub with Jennifer Aniston, sitting right next to her, in fact talking to her half the night, until the arrival of her her odious fiance and his throwing an intentional and vigorous c**kblock on me, thus he denied a “clear goal scoring opportunity.” It surely wasn’t all that clear.
Granted, not a totally apt comparison! A nice thought all the same.
Alright, now I’m really done with it.
Dr Faustus,
Your pedantry is well founded – I simply forgot to remove the italics and put the brackets round the wrong word.
Or to put it in other words – your pedantry is wasted on a simpleton like me π
If you are correct, and Wenger is still identifying players AND determining the fine details of the contracts, is it any wonder that we struggle to call in reinforcements?
Or put on other words, never get anything done…..
Kompany wins his appeal! What a feckin joke English football is! Rife with bias, inconsistency and favouritism that makes one’s stomach churn. It’s clear that the authorities want to keep this title race as close as possible till the end of the season for commercial and entertainment value in any way at all possible! “As long as Arsenal aren’t assisted, it’s all good”! Mike Dean officiating AFC matches 90% of the time guarantees that continues unabated! Corrupt competition well and truly alive.
Evening all. Listening to lots of Arsenespeak before attempting a preview. It will be a late one because Le Boss won’t shut the fuck up π
Homer, the criteron for a red is as you say that is shall deny an obvious goal-scoring opportunity, but the attacker does not neccessarily have to have the ball for that to be fulfilled. It must, however, be deemed that he would have definitely reached it before the goalie or another defender.
And like zico I no longer think the Kompany red was as wrong as I first thought. I had a look at the animated gif that was linked to earlier and I can certainly see the argument for sending him off. I find it very remarkable that the FA rescinded that card to be honest, at least compared to how stubborn they have been in the past in overturning cards.
tabs, wherever you are, I’ve been calling Mike but he hasn’t picked up today, I DM’d you on Twitter last night, but if you’re reading and haven’t checked that messahe, tell your brother that I do want the ticket and I’ll have the cash at the Tollie tomorrow evening, maybe eating some of their exquisite Thai food (although it doesn’t look like it anymore with what I have to allocate funds to as of today π Maybe on Saturday for the Chelsea game if its on at the Tollie before work & if I get paid this week) or just waiting about with Lars/Snowy π
With reference to the drinks on Arsene’s role in all aspects of running things, having been there myself during my working life, I can say that it easy to overextend yourself without noticing it.
You get to work longer and longer hours, being so engrossed that you lose track of your aims, get stressed, and make decisions that you would never have made under normal circumstances
Here, IMO, are some examples of his poor decisions
AW said that he realised the Dutch sale to the Silly Auld Fart could be costly, so why didn’t he put a ‘goals scored’ clause in the contract?
AW has chosen the team, the nature and timing of substitutions, the tactics to be employed, all based upon the intimate knowledge of the physical and mental state of the players, and he is getting it wrong in ways that he never did before !
When journalists question him, he no longer gives a reasonable response,but defends with ‘what do you know about my job’, and I do wonder if he treats the players in the same way( which may explain why van P left)
I realise that this is speculation but it is difficult to describe all of the symptoms that stress and overwork may cause in AW
This is also pretty sad;
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/official-who-urged-lescott-to-applaud-62-city-fans-axed-from-fa-cup-duty-8451583.html
Marvellous !
Thomas RoSICKY has been exercising the imaginations of Gooners since being declared fit some while ago.
He’s been seen on the bench, even beginning to unzip his top during one match (I forget which one), but has not made it onto the field of play.
On Sunday, mysteriously, there was no sign of TR7, not even on the bench.
Was he about to be sold?
Had he fallen out with the boss?
But no! All has now become clear.
Our highly talented but sickest of Rosickys, has been and gone and injured himself again without even playing, at all, since last being declared fit.
And so another injury cycle begins ………. π
a βgoals scoredβ clause
We should of done that with TGSTEL and Chamakh…..
They’d owe us money. π
I cannot for the life of me imagine how multi multi multi squillionaire Sheik Rattel Anroll got Vincent Kompany’s red card overturned. π
Always interesting to listen to the man, but that Al Jazeera interview was in December. Things have changed since. Oh well, to work…
Heh Trev @ 182.
Plus the need for an audience generating close finish to the Prem. No brainer. Can’t allow the thing to fizzle out in February, there’s income to be generated and sponsors to be satisfied.
This is no longer just a sport – this is income generation of mammoth proportions.
I heard that interview today and was wondering, in some hope when he got to the ‘spend big’ part, when it was recorded.
The one note I’d make about the lack of spending so far, more in general than in response to any of the above drinks: Virtually no spending has taken place anywhere. Yes, many faithful had their eyes on Ba, and that obviously got done quickly, but I think that was one situation in which the selling club was clearly motivated to be rid of him as quick as possible to try and arrest the slide they were experiencing. By all accounts, the up-front cost of that transfer was 13-15 million quid plus wages that would have made Ba one of the highest paid members of the club. I’m willing to hear arguments, but I don’t think he’s worth that kind of money, particularly since his presence would only have brought depth, as opposed to any tactical variety. Plus, it would have unsettled the wage situation much worse than anything that happens with Feo (players, more than we think, are on board with the idea that longtime service leads to larger checks, and I’m fairly sure they would have considered Theo “due,” even if some of the younger lads are outperforming him. That’s often not the case with new arrivals, though).
The remainders of what’s already been done: Sturridge, Holtby (finalized in summer), Remy … am I missing anyone? None of those were on the radar and I doubt there was much clamoring for any of them to arrive on the part of the fans (even if you rate Holtby, he wasn’t to arrive until summer anyway, so no help for this critical campaign).
My point is that January markets are always a mess and always involve late drama because selling clubs want to maximize their take, and the players would rather have the ability to play teams against each other to drive up wages. I really don’t think there’s a chance that, unless Wegner was serious about Ba, he could have done anything in the first few weeks anyway for any legitimate target. The only party to benefit from early action would be Arsenal; everyone else would be sacrificing leverage.
The response to this could be that we shouldn’t have been relying on January, etc. And that’s a perfectly valid point. But I don’t think it’s fair to slate Wegner for January inaction, yet. As it stands, every single target being mooted could be at the Grove come February, regardless of what the media say (Christ, we’ve already been in and out of the Zaha proceedings four fecking times already this window, according to scribes). And, as we saw with Mata, for Wegner to even suggest he’s after someone creates real problems, so there is no upside to him, or the Board, being anything other than evasive and contradictory when the subject arises.
Evening bath,
And reports on the radio today that, had the red card stood, Mankini was going to buy another defender !
So much for his squad – not to mention FFP.
I agree with you bath, it’s all great big hairy sweaty bollocks !
aCG: If I’m willing to ride on any speculative train when it comes to our manager, it’s the one that suggests he’s burning out due to having too much on his shoulders, not to mention the stress of the now-Biblical silverware drought. It’s very difficult for A-types to let go of responsibility, especially when they’ve had such high levels of success. And while we can all toast PurpleNose for being “above” such downsides of ego, he was never lauded as a revolutionary in terms of management, and came from a completely different background. Arsene is a proud man and for good reason, and it would be hard to argue that there are others more qualified for any of the specific jobs that people would like to see him delegate. The only argument is that whatever is lost in not having him oversee X is gained by him having more energy for those few tasks at hand for which he’s irreplaceable.
I’m worried about him personally, because he’s aged about 15 years in the last five. In fact, I haven’t seen him look even remotely “well” since the assault Eduardo.
“The best thing that could happen to the club this season would be not to finish in the top four. That is the perfect recipe to awaken most members of the board from their catatonic slumber. The only thing they care about is money. Finishing fifth or worse will focus their attention. One step back in order to take two steps forward.”
Tell that to Liverpool.
Its genius! Lose Β£25-Β£30 million a season of UCL Money to remove the board… At the same price! That’s right, Β£50-Β£60 million Pound costs for Arsenal Football Club! Line up around the blocks folks, this sale is gonna be around… All night 8)
*toddles off to revise hoping tabs has seen his drink @ 177*
I want Usmanov dead, personally, but each to their own.
There’s something I haven’t read here, but elsewhere and still can’t believe is possible.
Someone said Mike Dean was refereeing us again next Sunday.
Say it ain’t so.
Cdoyle @ 191
Don’t feed the troll. He’s about to get launched…..
In other news, I’m still waiting for the confirmation of Torvill&Dean’s ITK-ness regarding ‘Feo has signed’ π
What says you now, Snir? :p
As today seems to have been a day of dreams and nightmares, I feel compelled to offer my own experience of last night.
I, acting as a journalist of good connections within the corridors of power at the training ground, found myself, late at night, standing at the half open door to Arsene Wenger’s surprisingly brightly lit office.
Easing my head round the door, I could see Monsieur Wenger sitting at the window making a long series of complicated hand gestures at the glass.
I crept quietly up behind him, intrigued by this slightly bizarre behaviour.
In the car park below his office window, two men were sitting in a car lit dimly by it’s own interior light. They were clearly concentrated on Monsieur Wenger’s actions, as was I.
Puzzled, I dared to ask him,
“Mister Wenger, pardon my curiosity, but may I ask what you are doing?”
“Be quiet !”, he snapped.
“You’ll ruin everything ! Can’t you see I’m signing someone ?!”
Heh, Trev.
You need hands….
Sigh, Zico. You’re right. But it’s so tempting …
Trev, that got a snort out of me, which led to an awkward look from one of my employees. Thanks for that.
Too late
Bang !!!
Oops – the special needs class *heads for exit sharpish*
Well in Ollie.
Doh! Well in Ollie. π
…for the assist, but spot on time for the goal!
Cheers, cdoyle.
Heh Ollie, nice one.
Pity the deleted posts will take you back into the 90s π
Blimey, that really was a close call, looks like a few of us reached for the ball at the same time. So many Arsenal players in the box at the same time, would never happen in real life! π
Thanks Trev and H2H.
*signs autographs*
haha, zico, true. Cheers.
Heh @ Trev signing.
Haha. Well in Ollie.
In sad news just realized the Swansea match isn’t on live over here. Fuckfuckfuck. Nothing worse than having to go dark on the internet until you can see the replay. It will be absolute torture waiting.
I blame Mike Dean, that odious cunny.
I haven’t dared checking if it’s on here yet, cdoyle.
Will wait until tomorrow but I’m hopeful. I do fear they’ll have some sort of ‘multiplex’ with the other replays.
Heh, Trev!
Well in Ollie!
It will be live somewhere cdoyle, son should be more then enough streams available. (that’s what I’m counting on)
Greetings, Clive. Hope this finds you equally well disposed. Heartburn is probably the least of both our worries.
Trev@197, got to hand it to you…
Ollie@193: I knew there was something I liked about you.
cdoyle @ 190 – I share those concerns. I think that is a factor in recent inexplicable behaviour.
trev @197 – mega heh
and well in Ollie
Evening Holics.
Hope all is well. Took the past 4 days or so off. Needed a bit of time and a lot of deep breathing. I don’t have much to add.
I will say I agree with the penalty and yellow card group. That would have been punishment enough for me even if roles were reversed.
Watch almost any corner kick in any game and you will possibly see a similar play. It happens all the time without even a foul being called. Ah well. Forward.
Enjoy your evening and let’s be glad there is live football tomorrow ( even if its tape delayed here in the land of greed and stupidity).
Cheers all.
H2H: Watching a stream is like watching scrambled cable porn in the 90s: You’re sure something exciting is happening, but you can’t tell a nipple from an asshole.
Though at least the scrambled porn didn’t have buffering lags.
Nice one Ollie π
Trev π Any update for tomorrow?
H2H, cdoyle, Cognac Gooner, Doctor Faustus, thanks for another excellent round of drinks within 1-2 days of the last of them π
On The FA? I was half expecting Platini or Blatter to give the Green Light on Goal-Line Technology on Monday or late Sunday when Szcz saved the penalry onto the post and it rolled back towards him near the goal line, what a dubious decision π And the same goes for The FA, they (along with FIFA/UEFA) should just all stand in line and toss themselves off into the same toilet for prosperity π
And I don’t think anyone can defend Alan Hansen in the case of his sanity, lucky his career was never seriously halted on the scale of Jack’s time out of the game (someone from that vintage correct me if I’m wrong) by being on the receiving end of a full-body jump lunge tackle like that from Kompany. Tosspot.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I may be stupid in my reasoning but am loosing confidence in Kols. Watch all decisive matches he’s played and observe the blunders coming from him. Starting from the Carling Cup final two seasons ago till date. Another f**king obvious shits is what RvP said about the club not being ambitious. I don’t blame the players but Wenger and the f**king board. We need quality and quantity. It can’t be overemphasized.
I think that Nou Camp refereeing travesty was the tipping point which caused the rapid disintegration of what was a pretty handy Arsenal side … N7 Gooner
———————————————————————–
I have also long held this to be that moment. Had RvP not been ludicrously sent off he might well have scored in the breakaway late in the match – a goal which would have won the tie for us on the away goals rule. As it was the chance fell to our Danish pastry who duly stuffed it.
Oskar