Telegraph Porkies And New Signings Bull
Jan 9th, 2013 by 'holic
Wednesday evening. A post is in order, but what about? I know, how about ticket prices for Grade A games? Too late, I should have got in last night. Arseblog carries a comprehensive recount of the issues today and I commend that to all. The point about City’s salary policy forcing prices up for all is a most salient argument, but yes, that doesn’t mean that their supporters, indeed any supporters, should be ripped off as a result.
What I will say about it is that the club have been quite clever about their pricing policy, largely excluding the gold members from the worst effects. If we get the full quota of cup ties in then my ticket will have cost me just over Β£41 per game. Few season ticket holders are joining in the condemnation. It is silver members, red members, and visiting supporters who are being squeezed. A degree of divide and conquer is at work. At the end of the day if the tickets sell then that is market forces in action, and there will be little chance of a major change in policy. The reverse will apply if tickets remain unsold. It will be interesting to see if Liverpool on a Wednesday night in January sells out.
My last word on the topic for now. Although I understand the press lining up to highlight the issue, I would prefer to see them stir up a passionate debate with facts, not utter untruths. Who would have thought the Telegraph, of all sources, grumbling about ‘pricing of Β£62 for away supporters, equivalent to the most expensive home seats elsewhere in the stadium‘. Chris Bascombe, it really isn’t difficult to research Arsenal’s ticket prices to check your facts. The link is here, should you wish to comment further on the issue from a position of strength. You will find visitors are paying the cheapest prices on offer.
Is There A Window Open?
Approaching a third of the way through the month, and although I usually steer clear of tedious transfer speculation I cannot help but notice the way that discussions about Theo Walcott and David Villa have developed in the drinks.
I will believe Theo has agreed a new deal when I see the confirmation on the official website. I haven’t been able to avoid though talk of him signing da ting today for a reported Β£90k – Β£110k per week and trousering a signing on fee in the millions to boot. Is he worth that? Don’t torture yourself by arguing the point. His advisors have played a blinder for their boy, and he has to a certain extent struck it lucky with the goals he has been able to score this season putting greater pressure on the Arsenal negotiators. If he doesn’t continue to improve he has a value that can be cashed in on.
Should the deal be tied up quickly then who do we turn our attention to next? I understand all of the discussion about David Villa, and am surprised at the extremes of opinion about him. For me he was always the more gifted member of his pairing with Torres, and he has continued to score goals in the not much more than a handful of appearances he has made this season since recovering from his first major injury. For all that they may protest that he is not for sale, Barca will know from their pursuit of Cesc that an unhappy player can be picked up for a very reasonable fee. Villa appears to be stirring the pot too, good lad. Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see the biter bit. A fair price? An eight figure sum for sure, regardless of age. Compare that to the proceeds from another season in the Champions League his goals could secure? That is a gamble I would have to seriously consider.
Cheers for now ‘holics. I’ll be back when I’m older.
487 Responses to “Telegraph Porkies And New Signings Bull”
First!
Second?
Krikey, and I’ve even got a ton of work to do!
Ticket prices for homefans start at GBP126 I heard it on talksport
Nice one mate.
5th?
Fourth place !!!
Boy is Swansea on a run of form!
Oh goody, a new column! You’re right Holic, will be interesting to see if this fan boycott has legs. I’m firmly in the fans corner on this, no matter what their teams’ colors are π And yes Arseblog was an education for me today. Now for dessert, Mr Villa π He can play on either the left or right and he provides depth. He is no ‘half the pitch player’! Think he could make an impact immediately. Fingers crossed π
apparently with Villa ,it’s all to do with D N A.
Does Not Appear in the starting 11.
The only question I have about the ticket price issue is as follows (and applies to any sport): If the clubs lowered the prices, but there was still a willingness on the part of many to pay the inflated prices, then the additional profits over the now-lowered face price will go into the hands of touts rather than the club itself. You would basically be daring any season ticket holder to pass on the opportunity to more than double his/her investment by reselling. Is that preferable to the status quo? I think it would not only create an economy centered around the club that doesn’t benefit the team itself (which is the ostensible reason for charging for tickets in the first place). We may feel that the club doesn’t always spend the revenues it earns in the best possible matter, but at the very least the result of our shelling out to watch the team is that the team itself is enriched for our largesse, directly.
An alternative: I would like to see some of the dynamic pricing models that are being introduced in baseball attempted in football. Yes, it would mean that no one except the prawn sandwich brigade would ever see United/Chavs/Spuds owing to the higher demand and willingness to pay, but it would potentially re-open the lower-demand league games to those who cannot afford the prices as-is. Ultimately, the club gets to both maximize it’s potential earn at the gate on the whole, while the greater variation in per-game prices creates more opportunities for younger fans who cannot afford prices as currently set. A knock-on effect would be fewer empty seats, as those lower-priced games that may not interest a ST holder could be easily moved on at face value. Admittedly this is mostly theoretical, as the program in baseball is still relatively new and has yet to yield significant results, but I’d bet that the clubs come out ahead by maximizing those opportunities they have to squeeze fans with ticket prices, and encouraging attendance to less popular events that at least guarantee an uptick in concessions.
Top ten?
Bradford, Swansea (home and away) results over the last couple of evenings do put some of our recent results into a bit more perspective, poor as some of our performances were.
Good piece Holic.
Β£62 is, in fact, HALF of the dearest seat in the rest of the stadium, i.e. mine, and that is without even considering Club Level.
It does seem that the silver and red members are getting pretty cheesed off with the new pricing structure.
The overall price of my season ticket, Β£1,955, has not changed this season, although the elements that make it up have. Gold members – season ticket holders – are “scared” to vote with their feet over prices because of the years it could take to get back up to that level, of course.
Clever stuff, really. Everyone’s screwed, noone can do much about it.
That is exactly the model Arsenal are employing cd.
Holic knows re David Villa.
Arseblog knows re ticket prices.
That said, think the beer bill will be greater than the invoice for the ticket this weekend….. π
cd, baseball (in the States) has had nose bleed cheap seats for years. Very family friendly.
@ Holic: From what I understand, the club currently bins games into three different categories, whereas the dynamic model is on a per-game basis, and reacts a little more to straight supply-demand issues. Is my understanding of the current program lacking?
Cdoyle,
I don’t see how that “dynamic baseball model” would work at all.
How would the club administer sales to 60,000 unknowns for every game?
Is it ‘turn up and pay’ on the day in a giant queue, or, an online scramble that currently sounds like mayhem for even a fraction of present members ?
Nice mid-week post ‘holic.
Trev knows @12.
From the last of drinks, Norcal knows @433.
Wind, thanks for the kind words. Goodluck with your job and most importantly your exams.
zico knows@14 π
@ABB: Baseball is unquestionably the most family-friendly sport in terms of pricing, but it’s mostly an accident of circumstance: Having 82 home games really waters down demand on a per-game basis. Alternatively, the NFL is a much more expensive proposition for season ticket holders than the Premier League.
Swansea have considerably less resources than Arsenal and a fraction compared to Chelski, what a great way to run a club.
Well done!
Yes, superb Arseblog today, if anyone hasn’t read it yet.
Interesting, by the way, that Bradford played so well again last night. Good football, played mostly on the ground, well organised, good at set pieces – especially the attacking ones – and managed by an ex-Arsenal scout in Phil Parkinson. Was he asked to scout all those qualities for us, I wonder?
A few less Mancs at the Emirates … what a shame. Let’s subsidise ’em … On no maybe not.. and squeeze a Manc has a ring to it.
Hi cd, Good point. NFL (Not For Loving), I could care less about! But boy oh boy, you are are so right about baseball. 7th inning stretch, anyone rich or poor can enjoy π
Is there any lesson to be learned from American sport?
Only if you are Luis Suarez – all their ball sports are played by hand….. π
I am staggered,if the reports are true,that the Schoolboy is being offered vast sums of money to sign a new deal.
I wouldn’t pay him 100 quid a week,let alone 100,000.!!
Madness.
He would never ever be in my first eleven in a month of Sundays.
After all these years he is still incapable of going past a full back in a one on one situation.
He just doesn’t have a proper footballing brain.
And as for playing him up front,give me a break.!!
Apart from scoring a few goals,which i admit he is good at when the chances present themselves, if you look at most of his assists,particularly to RVP last season,they were a product of a pass inside the full back for him to run onto.
Even then in a lot of instances he played a blind cross into the area without giving it any thought at all.
He is very poor in the tackle and too easily knocked off the ball by determined defenders.
If it was me,i would play the OX down the right wing,whilst drumming into him his defensive responsibilities,Poldi down the left,Rosicky can cover both wings as well,and get some proper crosses into Giroud,who is great in the air/playing to his strengths.
In contrast Ollie G should be one of the first names on the teamsheet.
I just think the front line functions far better when he is leading the line,he constantly causes defenders problems with his movement,is excellent in the air,and plays with 100% commitment every time he is on the pitch.Poldi is a far better player with Ollie up front as well.
I am sure the younger players in the squad,and probably a lot of the more experienced ones,are not best pleased with the hardball approach by the Schoolboy’s advisors re his contract.
I just think it causes a rift in the dressing room,when you have someone not fully commited to the cause.
I repeat,in my opinion he is not worth the dosh.
Cheers
The Sweeper.
Heh π
@ Trev: It would be almost entirely administered online. Probably the thing I’m not taking into account is the much higher ratio of ST holders to gen. admission fans for Arsenal matches, vs. baseball in which even the most supported teams (Yankees, Red Sox, Phils) will only have roughly half the total seats occupied by ST holders. From a starting point similar to the categories Arsenal employs, the team basically opens up a market for remaining gen. admission tickets, and as demand increases so does the marginal price of each ticket (or, conversely, drops). In many cases, the teams are using third-party markets to do this, as they’re extremely efficient (StubHub is an example).
But the more I’ve thought this out, the more I realize that there are probably just too many differences between the sports to make my idea anything more than a half-baked spitball. They can’t all be winners …
As for my first q in my original post: What’s to make us think that the sacrificed margins from the team if they dropped prices wouldn’t just end up in the pockets of the touts? And if that was the case, would it be seen as a positive regardless, as it would result in a portion of fans (those who will not resell tickets in the face of potential windfall) enjoying reduced prices, in return for the club making less at the gate?
Oh good one Dr Zzzzzzzzz! Now to read Clive! You know what I like about this post? Two distinct topics to carry us over till Man City game. Most excellent π
@Zico: Heh. Well in. Though I’m afraid to say the real lesson we’ll all be learning from American sports is how to cram as many commercials as possible into a single contest. Your average NFL game features roughly 15 minutes of the ball being in play, and about 90 minutes of advertisements. It’s to the point that more people remember their favorite Super Bowl ads than who actually won the thing the year before.
Heh. π was @ zico.
I’d agree with all the monetary aspects of that Clive, and some of the footballing ones.
I do think Theo has improved his crossing and is generally more thoughtful with his passing.
But, a central striker, or, worth Β£100,000 per week ?
Not for me.
I think people who like American Football can remember recent Super Bowl winners pretty well. Especially when it’s the Giants beating the Patriots twice π
And hopefully tonight’s result might put our game at Swansea in a bit more perspective.
hi, ‘holic, hi abb, hi all
I read arseblog’s article today just after I went on arsenal.com to see what tickets were available for Man City. The game was sold out, even with the tickets having been returned by Citeh’s away fans. And therein lies the problem – they sell out at current prices.
The tickets aren’t too expensive, they’re too expensive for some people. The club hierarchy have to fund the club, especially the ridiculous and constantly increasing salaries. But on the other hand they don’t want (I would hope) to antagonise a members of a group who unconsciously think of themselves as the “real” fans. The club also relies too heavily on matchday income, but they seem to be aware of this, hence the big push to increase revenue from abroad. I also like the fact that the League cup and Emirates Cup are so much lower – you get younger people, students, parents bringing their children, etc. The atmosphere is wonderful as a result.
The rationale behind more expensive tickets for non-season ticket holders is easy to understand. They are rewarding regular attenders and long-standing supporters. They get all the money in advance and the quid pro quo is that it’s cheaper per game. Red members probably attend fewer games, but can choose whether or not to spend money on any particular game.
I think that salaries have to come down first, which is why I don’t see anything happening in the short term, because that development is tied in with the drive to control the amount clubs can spend on wages. And that has a long way to go.
However if Liverpool on a wet Wednesday doesn’t sell out, the club will probably have to take serious note. But I honestly don’t expect that to happen.
I would be delighted if Theo does indeed sign but uncomfortable with him being the highest or one of the highest earners. He is benefitting from the club being between a rock and a hard place – the deal as reported would not actually about his performance, but about keeping stability and continuity after two seasons of upheaval and rebuilding. When the circumstances are right, he’s amazing, but he’s not yet the talisman player who can consistently be relied on to produce goals out of nowhere when we are in direst need.
As for David Villa, wow! And how sweet it would be to make Barca swallow some of their own medicine. But no chance of any deal happening before the summer, according to Graham Hunter.
Clive, what I’m hoping is that peer pressure by Jack, Kieran, Alex, Carl and Aaron exerted on Theo, will make him a Team Player. Must admit your observations of his negatives are spot on. However, he has developed his game and has pleasantly surprised me. This is what I love, to see our lads grow π
OMG FUNGUNNER IS BACK! Now to read your post!
Cd, in principal, although not dynamic, that is the club model because they know full well the cat A’s would sell-out on that basis, and that Wigan would need to be discounted to compensate, etc. They will always sell out the tickets, even if not everybody parks their bum on a seat.
I would say as well that the future support is catered for by the ten pounds entrance fee for CoCup games.
Under the new system there are a lot of long-term supporters who can only afford maybe a game a month who are now being excluded from the games they grew up with. Why should they be fleeced to watch the North London derby. The need for greed needs to be tempered by a consideration for the people who got us to this point in our history.
Ooh, and Diaby playing 65 mins today – that cheered me up no end.Almost as much as the result of the COC tie today.
One final point cd.
Touts never took the amount of money out of the game that the players do today.
The money used to circulate between the clubs. Now it goes straight to fancy dans and their agents. The pendulum has swung far too far.
Cheapest way is to watch dodgy illegal streams for free.
I rip everyone off. π
As for TW, I lean towards Gsince54 in terms of his abilities but wouldn’t be quite so harsh on the lad. What is clear though that, if the stories are true about the wads of cash going his way, expectations among the crazed masses are going to be much higher. Can he live up to them, or will he just laugh all the way to the bank? Methinks he could have gone elsewhere and got more moolah, so maybe AW was right when he said it wasn’t only about money for Theo. A little respect due surely?
But GN was right the other day when he said, very perceptively I thought considering the bad company he used to keep, that Theo’s career starts now, whether he stays or not. Nothing left to hide behind – he’s now old enough and experienced enough. Deliver or disappear.
Evening
Every Arsenal fan knows its not only expensive to follow The Arsenal its also very, very frustrating.
Arseblogs points of such a jump in the wage bill is nothing but a joke really, dont get me wrong I am not saying he is wrong what I mean is that every year we pay more and more wages on players not fit to wear the shirt.
We could easily field a starting 11 of players on 40k plus a week who never will make the grade at Arsenal let alone some other teams.
How can we justify buying more players when the amount of dead wood who turn up for training every day to pick up a huge wage for just training, because we know as well as AW they are not good enough ! Simple as that !
Mass clear out is needed before we can afford to buy anyone I think. Thats the way forward more wage and less trophies. Genious plan, any bond villian would be proud of that cunning plan.
As for Walcott ? I would like him to sign but only on our terms and not his agents terms.
@ abb
π
However, he has developed his game and has pleasantly surprised me. This is what I love, to see our lads grow
Agreed.
I think he frustrates many because if you plotted Theo’s improvement on a graph it would look like a staircase – he seems to be stuck at one level for ages and then seemingly overnight takes a giant step up. He’s still streaky, but the streaks are wider and closer together than they were.
@ Holic: Yeah, that pretty much does it. I do think what the club does with the CC games is wonderful.
The question, then, is whether we can expect Arsenal to compete with the oil barons if they’re not completely maximizing all revenue streams. And I say that with full knowledge that the club isn’t maximizing those banked revenues right now β a different conversation, one fairly well rung-out at this point. I am 100 percent in favor of a move that benefits the fans, particularly those who carried the club to this point with their largesse so there would be an Arsenal for the younger/newer such as myself to enjoy. But I do think there’s a real downside to the club doing that, as that revenue can and will be generated on the perceived value of the tickets; it just will be someone else capitalizing on that additional revenue.
Oh FunG, I’m just so glad you’re back. Still smiling! And hey, Diaby π
Haha. Yes. I find it funny that one of the teams ( city and Chelski) that has done the most to distort value in Football has the audacity to send back tickets. Their fans are subsidized by their owners and yet they show outrage when they have to pay more. I am on the fans side for sure on this matter and think that the prices are crazy but we rely on ticket sales as a revenue stream more than any of the other ” big” teams in England. We can not keep pace with their spending without continually raising revenue and tickets are one of those revenues.
You don’t get all the perks if a sugar daddy and then get to bitch when it bites you. Maybe Monsour should pay each away supporter Β£15 to help with the cost inflation they are causing.
Cheers
“Now it goes straight to fancy dans and their agents.”
Absolutely. Not enough money goes into the game as such. Many a PL chairman would love to make infrastructure improvements, or start an academy, but every increase in the TV money is siphoned off to players because everyone is competing for players and trying to fend off other clubs. That’s why I think there is hope for wage control coming in, just not in the short or medium term.
Whether Theo is worth 100,000k per week is all relative. I don’t think he is relative to other Arsenal players, but I do think he is relative to some of the crap at City and Chelsea. I imagine his agents did a good job drumming up either real or perceived interest from some of the silly money clubs and Arsenal were left to negotiate on the less favorable comparison level.
The best thing we could do to lower ticket prices is to refuse to pay top wages to mediocre players like Theo. It’s nothing short of an absolute disgrace if this kid is going to be one of the top earners at the club for what hes contributed over the past 8 years. Furthermore it will only fuel a further spiral in wages when players who really contribute compare their deals to his. Wonder how Arteta feels now after taking a pay cut to play as a DCM when he sees billy big potatoes earning 50% more. Socialist structure my arse!
FunGunner,
Oh dear, here we go again.
As I am about to be charged Β£123.50 to watch us play Man City on Sunday, up pops FunGunner to tell us that the tickets are not too expensive.
Personally, I am fortunate to be able to afford the prices at the moment.
Were I not, the club will not allow me to trade down to a cheaper level. It is a one way street, I’m afraid, to either dearer seats, or the exit.
Are you actually aware of that ?
And many fans have been priced out.
These are not just people who “unconsciously think of themselves as ‘real’ fans”, they actually ARE real fans, some I know who have been going to games for more than 50 years.
I would agree that the pricing for League Cup games is terrific, as is the atmosphere, which my 9 year old daughter has loved more than once.
I can’t honestly see the relevance of the Emirates Cup comparison – it is a pre-season friendly tournament for goodness sake, and I have been to games in that tournament where the atmosphere was dead.
From memory, it actually costs more than the League Cup, which is a proper competition.
No offence FunG, but I feel you must either be pretty well off, or have a very cold view of what it means to turn up and support your club for several decades.
@ ‘Holic: Hmmm … I sense a potential difference in ideology between myself and the esteemed proprietor. Just in terms of how revenues are split between clubs and owners, I’m willing to accept the players are getting “too much” so long as the owners agree to track ticket prices to a percentage above salaries. But they wouldn’t do that; if players were paid 50 percent of what they earn now, you would not see a 50 percent drop in ticket prices, because in economic terms the owners would be silly to pass up the revenue they clearly could be earning. The rise in salaries, IMO, comes down to arms races between owners, driven by inequitable divisions of the spoils amongst teams, and the knowledge of the players and agents that the teams have access to increased revenues and believe, rightly or wrongly, that those proceeds should go to the talent. We can label it as greed on the part of the players, or the owners, but the bottom line is there is a ton of money being spent by fans directly or indirectly to watch football, and I don’t know that the players *shouldn’t* be the recipients of most of that revenue, since it’s in fact them we’ve come to see.
Cannot believe I’ve forgotten to buy a round, which has probably become at least two because everyone’s been forced to listen to my banging on about some nonsense for 1,000-plus words. Sorry all. Let me make it up to you with the finest Speyside has to offer. Cheers all.
On the ticket price issue I have some sympathy but ask any one of those City fans if they would give back there long sought after title last year in exchange for cheaper away tickets and I think I know how they would almost all answer.
Thanks for alerting to Arseblog today – great article.
Part of the problem lies in corruption at the highest levels, thus nothing will really get done.
As for being priced out, I stopped going regularly many years ago when prices hit 10 quid. Not much by today’s levels but I figured back then I could see 2 or 3 movies for that. You may well say that that means I’m not a real fan, but I love movies too. So it was a question of value. Plus, they made stadiums all seaters and I loved the terraces, plus GG was managing the most boring Arsenal side I’ve ever seen (yes, I know they won things) – I just figured the value was elsewhere.
Now I watch just about every game from my overseas vantage point and my wife thinks I’m madder then ever.
‘er indoors knows!
FG nails it re: Theo, particularly the staircase thing.
Enjoying a hearty chuckle at Chelsea this evening. And an equally large one at City. Ticket prices are too high, but it’s ludicrous that they should be the ones fronting this argument, and obnoxious that they point the finger at us for running the club like an actual business rather than the three ring circus they’re constructing in Manchester.
I also note a lot of empty seats at their home games, which makes me wonder if the real issue here is simply that some of their support are sick of participating in the farce.
Cdoyle @42,
Sorry to take issue again ‘cos I’ve really liked what you’ve posted recently, but Arsenal, with their current model, cannot compete with the oil barons/sheiks whether we maximise our revenue streams or not.
Our streams are their estuaries – no comparison, sadly.
Btw, I do not want us to become sheik owned either.
N7, quite a few old time Chavs fans I know have found the current regime very distasteful for a long time now.
They don’t go anymore. Funny innit ? π
Trev
I think there’s a story there that the press have simply refused to examine, because I also know a few similar Chavs myself.
It stands to reason that not every fan will stick around to watch their club being turned into a two bob knocking shop.
Our board may be an utter shambles at times, but at least they’ve a shred of integrity.
@Trev: Please do take issue! I was hoping to engage and accept that those on the ground and in the stands on a weekly basis have access to information and a perspective I don’t.
Your point is taken, though it leads us to another question (Christ, I really do apologize everyone): Is the ability of the Citehs of the world to financially bludgeon us make it more or less important for Arsenal to maximize revenues? It strikes me that the massive disparity in resources makes the marginal value of each additional dollar earned for Arsenal much higher than it is for almost any other team in the league, as we’re still at the point on the reward curve in which even incremental decline involves a massive financial hit, while an incremental improvement can mean an additional windfall of tens of millions in additional revenue (this is supposing that the relationship between revenue and investment is linear, which we know it isn’t, but for the sake of argument).
Apropos of nothing: All the talk of how Citeh fans feel has really made me wonder how we would have felt if Mansour had purchased us instead of Citeh. Would we have rationalized all of this away like they seem to have? It’s very difficult to deal in hypotheticals, but I can’t imagine that I would have been as upset by it as I’d like to think I would be if it happened now.
NorCalArsenal- Agree these guys come in and start throwing money on wages that simply unrealistic. If I’m not wrong first 100 grands a week was a Chelsea player, as we know players will want parity with their team mates and now it has gone completely out of control. Man city decided they can go one step further and offered 200 grand a week. Its funny when I hear people moaning why Arsenal sell their best players. RVP was offered Β£250,000-a-week wages plus 10 million loyalty bonus by United, there was going to be only one winner in the tussle. Arsenal have no choice but to hike their ticket prices for revenue, I don’t agree with it at all but I’m afraid the likes of City Chelsea and United are responsible for this. If City fans don’t want to pay for their tickets they should ask the owner to pay for them.
cd, Very insightful contributions by you, no need to fret! Trev, @ 48. FunG is being pragmatic, that’s all. I remember how she was at work during one of our games….just saying.
Wenger’s coat: both exceedingly warm looking and spot on re: ticket prices.
cd, you are a more than welcome visitor. Nobody will be disrespectful here.
Thanks for your contributions this evening.
@ cd
On how we would have reacted had we been taken over by Mansour… I may be a bit cynical but I think most fans would have rationalised their principles away if trophies and bragging rights over transfers materialised. Speaking personally, I think a little light would have died inside me, but your club is your club for ever and they would have to do something really terrible – I mean causing loss of life or something like that – to make fans turn away. Of course if success and big-name players had not followed, then I think the principles would have been alive and well!
@ Trev
I’m always happy to chat with anyone, and I particularly enjoy exchanges with people who disagree with my point of view. I find it stimulating to have to think through my opinions and enlightening to get my head around where someone else is coming from. However, I don’t enjoy chatting to anyone who is just unreasoningly hostile. So I’ll pass this time, thanks.
@ N7 Gooner
It’s still hypothetical of course, but if the reported deal goes through, I also worry that he has put too much pressure on himself to deliver. Anyway, getting ahead of myself there.
Cdoyle @56,
Re your last paragraph: spot on.
The Chavs and Citeh fans were more than happy when they were first taken over – most Citeh fans probably still are.
There weren’t any Chelsea fans before they were taken over – well, I’d never seen a shirt before, anyway.
Arsenal fans may well have been a bit more discerning as we were still winning things around that time, where the other two clubs had been far longer without success.
Very much like young children, I think. Doesn’t seem to matter what sort of super duper present you buy them, they spend much longer playing contentedly with the cardboard box. π
Evening ABB
I think you are being too nice to the Schoolboy,
as for Peer pressure from the young players you mentioned,i would loveto know what they were offered before signing up for the long term,without it would appear so much as a murmur of dissent.
Does anyone really think the Schoolboy brings any more to the table than those guys.
Fun Gunner,
Perhaps you could appraise me of one of the Schoolboy’s giant steps up.??
I’m scratching my head to think of one.
@ 64 Goonersince54
His finishing and final ball, his crossing… if you think back to how he was before.
Hi Clive! Theo, better than his mates? No. I just have this wonderful vision of 6 young men, growing old together at Arsenal. π
Evening all.
Some interesting debates re ticket prices. Arseblog is very much on the money today for me. The football market is massively inflated at all aspects of the game. Wages, transfer fees, ticket prices, the lot. Blame for this lies solely with the likes of Chelski and Citeh. They are the one who continually pay ridiculous transfer fees and wages. This has driven up the cost for everyone. They are partly responsible for the financial state that many have found themselves in in recent years. When Newcastle were relegated they went down with 15 players earning 50k or more a week. Utter madness.
I would love to see ticket prices reduced at the club but we all know that is not going to happen. Considering that, I think the actual policy is not that bad. The recent price structure means that if you attend every game, either as a season ticket holder or as a silver or red member then your yearly outlay will be the same. The introduction of a Cat C price I think is a good thing. It does make more games accessible to fans. I am sure that many would want to go to Cat A games. Of course they will but unless there is a massive reduction in prices in general then I think that the system as it is now is about as fair as it will ever get. Where I do have sympathy is with those who pay the top rates and for some reason the club will not let them move to a cheaper seat, should one become available. That is a bizarre decision that makes no sense at all. It just penalises loyal fans.
The Theo situation is one that I think we have created. The problem we now have is that I really do believe that we cant afford to let him walk away for nothing. For a club so set on a business model I think this would be ridiculous. The problem is that we have left it far too late. Theo now holds all of the aces. In my opinion the deal should have been sorted by this time last year. A take it or leave it offer then made at the end of the season. If he was not interested then we sell him then. We have now left it far to late and have been forced somewhat into a corner. Is he worth 100k a week???? Not in a million years.
Re the Citeh fans sending tickets back, quite frankly I could not give a Gareth Bale. As stated, they sit in seats subsidised by oil money. Welcome to the real world boys. You want to accept all that being a franchise brings you? Then you put up with the results it leaves elsewhere. To be honest if none of them could be arsed to turn up them I would not lose any sleep over it. Perhaps it says more about the quality of their fans than some are realising????
Bring it on.
Nice post Holic, debate is alive and kicking.
Hey Clive, your words with NorCal in the last bar really warmed my heart π Can’t thank either of you enough, please do let me know if you’re ever in the Highbury/Islington area on a Matchday, there’s a pint, that hasn’t been poured, that hasn’t been delivered, that hasn’t been brewed yet, that has your name on it at the Tollie.
Looking forward to meeting the Holics pre-game on Sunday hopefully, especially the illustrious Dr Z π Holloway Road Stn is my de facto station for going to work but its closed on a Sunday I think so I’ll get into North London a bit early so I’m not cut off my all the home fans from Caledonian Road Stn if I come from the Angel/Highbury and Islington Station vicinity by bus towards Holloway, can’t think of a better way to kill time before work than with a pint of Strongbow (or whatever Lars decides to buy me π ) in hand whilst watching the mighty Arsenal, will have to leave at Half-Time but its better than nothing, would be impossible to watch the 1st half at home without being late anyway π
Ollie.
I may have two tickets avialable for Stoke. Drop me an e mail if you are looking for some. Holic, please do the honours if Ollie does not have my details.
Cheers.
Good points there, Steve T
**
That is a lovely image, abb. It all hinges on winning something relatively soon, though. I’m ever hopeful.
Good night all.
It’s not closed on a Sunday, wind. Just for an hour and a half before and after matches.
ABB
my point is,Theo is going to be earning considerably more than the other young ‘uns if he deigns to put pen to paper,yet is no better than they are in terms of skills etc.
I would argue,despite Fun Gunners points,that he is worse in some aspects.
I repeat,it does not help team harmony to have one member chasing the dosh with naked greed and playing silly buggers.
Will do Steve, good man.
FunGunner,
“Unreasoningly hostile”.
Never my intention, and I did use examples for each of my arguments just to avoid being unreasoning.
We have disagreed about this pricing/pricing out loyal supporters issue before, and I would admit my reply to you was intended to be a bit spiky, but not “unreasoningly hostile”.
So, I re-read your post very carefully in a more generous light.
I admit I may have been a bit quick to jump at one or two of your comments and I apologise for that.
My “no offence” comment was a genuine one, but that was my impression of your views. However, I apologise for that too, if it did, indeed, offend you.
The pricing/loyalty issue is a touchy one with me – as you have discovered – but I will be careful not to over-react in future.
‘His finishing and final ball, his crossingβ¦ if you think back to how he was before.’
FG:
Theo is still as erratic, indecisive and inconsistent as ever. 6 of his 14 goals came from hat tricks against two of the most poorly defensive teams you’ll ever see. And his contribution on the wings largely depends on the space and time he’s given and the quality of the full back.
I won’t even get started with his inability to strike a dead ball from a set piece or his grossly inflated ego.
The prospect that this schoolboy is now going to be earning a similar wage to TH14 is utterly hysterical. Sadly I feel Steve is somewhat right in that its mostly a problem if our own making..!
Thinking of Wilko tonight.
Think Feelgood and I will raise a glass to him on Sunday.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013/jan/09/wilko-johnson-terminal-cancer
Clive, I can’t imagine our Jack (or any of those 5 players) putting up with Theo’s prima dona antics, especially when he is earning more. We have all worked, nothing more uncomfortable than our co workers shunning us when they feel we’re not pulling our weight. Of course, this has never been my problem (fail) π
Steve T @67 – good stuff.
And by the way – I’m not bring unreasonably hostile either FG – just maintaining a stance I’ve long held on here about Theo.
I think what’s happening in football is utterly insane especially when you look at clubs like Chelsea & City. And then when you think we’ve largely been run quite responsibly we go and reward mediocrity with a pot of gold. I’ve a feeling this has more to do with our fear of loosing him to Manu than deserving it on merit. It seems we managed to convert him into a centre forward in the past few weeks when the dogs on the street know he’s anything but!
When I first started going to games last season we still had 2 Categories: A and B. The usual suspects were in A, everyone else was lumped into B. So I paid Β£36.65 including booking for us vs Bolton in the League for a seat in the West Stand Lower, (3-0, The Rotter x2 [99/100], Song x1) back in the 2011-2012.
Nowadays we have 3 categories, add C onto the above. I’d say Bolton, if they were still in the league, would be in Category C and I would be paying about Β£29.65 for the same ticket in the same stand if I couldn’t score a Β£25.50 (+Β£1.65 booking fee) ticket instead.
For the average Red Member like me, the addition of a third Category has been aces, cheaper tickets (I think the price hike for Category B games is unwarranted with the spread of teams there, I think Stoke is in that category, they wouldn’t be if I ordered the categories) for most league games and if I want to make the stretch to a Category B game vs Fulham for example (correct me if I’m wrong) then I will. Category A games are effectively off-limits for a Member like me, sold out by the time they get to Silver Members and whatever resurfaces on Tx is ridiculous priced, when I was trying to source a ticket for the NLD came across a Β£149.50 ticket for the Upper Tier, maybe it was Club Level but I’d never get to buy a ticket for Category A games in general (sometimes you feel that your presence there isn’t needed with the prices you’re facing) so the price hike doesn’t affect me as much as it may a ST Holder like Trev (played my good man) but if you go with the general assumption that the majority of members are Red Members, then the club has done good.
Having to deal with such high prices for certain games is worth it when you can go to plenty of others much cheaper π
Steve T, I know people would say Arsenal leave contracts negotiations late but I think in a real world that how it should be. Did anyone think RVP would have an injury free and the best year of his entire career and that year happens to be his last of his contract. Had Wenger tabled a deal for him 3 year ago while he was injured people would say Wenger is a stupid man. We have Diaby who is in the same situation I don’t hear anyone saying Arsenal should give him a new contract but if he has the best year of his career and clubs offer him huge wages the same will happen. Flamini was the same, he was a useless left back had one fantastic season in midfield and he was gone. There is no loyalty in football it is all about money. Wenger thinks buying British will bring stability but i’m not convinced.
Great discussion tonight.
Thanks Guv for posting the teasers to start the conversations.
I believe Dr Z asked if there was anything to be learned from Merican sports?
Probably not as ours have gross failings as well. A salary cap may help curb some of these largesses but it would be a messy proposition that would only work if there was a ” world-wide” cap and that would be impossible.
One of the things that makes any type of regulation on football spending almost impossible is that there are too many leagues and each league wants the best players and teams. And money is what will always attract those players.
Even second rate leagues draw big name players because they are willing to pay. It is a horrible spiral that feeds itself.
Wenger’s Coat.
You pay your money, you make your choice. It’s all a gamble. With Theo I just feel that we have gambled and have lost. We now have to pay more ot lose him for nothing. My honest opinion is that I would have sold him in the summer and bought a replacement then.
Thanks for the knowledge Holic, I assumed it was closed because when me, NorCal, Emma & Jack left the Emirates after the Montpellier game, it was closed and a steward told us it was closed for the day or something which lead to me assuming the station isn’t open on Matchdays.
But to be honest I hate getting the train into or from work, will only do so if the expenditure of the fee is worth the value of the speed of the journey (if I’m running late to work), that’s why I get the Train home after a 7:45pm kick-off to save time π
I’m more worried about people coming from Finsbury Park/Highbury and Islington/Caledonian Road Stations making the buses have to stand for an age in Traffic so I still think I’ll get to North London early and come to the Tollie π
Cheers wind.
Good to ” see” you here.
Many thoughtful (and long!) drinks here.
I dunno, but dubbing Feo the Schoolboy was brilliant!
If am not mistaken, credit goes to The Sweeper. Solid!
I’m gonna use that by the way.
“If the expenditure of the fee is worth the value of the speed of the journey”
=
“If I’m late”
Only Wind. π
Top priced seats at Yankee Stadium to watch the NY Yankees baseball team are Β£130-160, by way of comparison. A season ticket for the regular season in the premium seats costs Β£25,000.
The market for footballers is atypical, by which I mean seriously dysfunctional. Setting aside the money involved, it is a sellers market. Players are hired on contracts, and are not conventional employees that can be fired for non-performance or laid-off when surplus to requirements. Yet contracts are effectively unenforceable for the clubs but not for the players. And the players’ agents hold most of the cards when it comes to negotiating through the press. Completely nuts.
NorCal @ 85, you too buddy, many thanks of your description of me in the last drinks π
Trev @ 87, π
Will be seeing you pre-game in the Tollie I presume in addition to Lars, Holic, (Ollie?) & Zico?
Sweeper@64: on the money, Clive. Theo can be the new Jerome Pennant.
Er, Jermaine…
Steve T@83: I think Theo could be the great player he thinks he already is, but AW may be the only manager who can make him so. The football gods are cruel.
All of the commercial breaks in American sports are probably the primary reason why I am hardly interested any more. That said, I would almost give anything not to have to see “Fly Emirates” on the front of the Arsenal shirt.
I hope Theo signs, if only to buck the trend of us selling our best players. I like the idea of the core of English players, as they look to all be good friends (Gibbs’ and Theo’s dance after Newcastle for example). They’ll fight for the club, but they’ll also fight for each other, which is important.
I see the rumours of the big haired Belgian on the gossip sights, and I really wish there was something to it- if only for the headbutt he gave Lemmy! I don’t like being drawn into the the transfer gossip, but re-signing Theo and making a couple of additions would really lay down a much needed marker. Who knows what we need or what Wenger will do, but lets hope someone comes in to give us a boost.
Holic @ 76
We will indeed.
Sad times.
Yuck.
Les nouveaux riches.
Rattles thrown out of their prams without a trace of irony, City fans complain about rampant inflation.
There is something about the present incarnation of Manchester City that I find every bit as nauseating as their not-so-noisy (yeah, right) neighbours, and makes any question about the probable destination of the title equivalent to asking “would you rather get naked and dirty with Susan Boyle or Ann Widdicombe?”
I have spraffed on these pages before about how my antipathy towards Man City is agitated by my proximity at work to a die-hard City fan. This guy, to be fair, paid his dues when they were contesting local derbies against Oldham and Bury following their ignominious and rapid descent down the divisions – he is not some new kid on the block. But within one season of winning their first FA Cup since (1969?) he had started with the “Arsenal are our feeder club” stuff. Irrespective of whether you give any credence to that statement, and I prefer not to, the ready-made, shake and bake recipe of conceit gets right under the skin. At least with their local rivals from Surrey, arrogance had taken root over a generation, and was backed by a substantial track record.
Yes, there is now much to dislike about the newly-minted.
It is said that Patrick Viera (has) played a prominent part in the migration of players from London to Middle Eastlands (whether any of this true or not, I don’t know). What I do know is that I find it irritating to see and hear him pimping for the Arabs and their “Project”. It’s not that I begrudge him a living – just that I still associate Viera, for some irrational reason, as somehow still belonging to Arsenal. In itself, this exodus is not of major importance. I can live with every player that they have signed from Arsenal, (though I wasn’t too happy with the way the lesbian’s transfer unfolded).
To substantiate that, for example, if you were to say to me, “who would you rather have in your midfield, Nasri or Cazorla?”, then I would almost certainly opt for the Spaniard, even though he’s been here barely half a season. The others – Clichy, a past-it Kolo Toure, or the sulking Adebayor (as opposed to the one-season-wonder Adebayor) – I’d say that the impact has been broadly neutral. I accept that had they managed to sign Van Persie last summer, as I thought they would, that neutrality would have veered onto much less indifferent territory.
So their recruitment policy , whilst irksome, has not directlyhad an impact on our squad. But indirectly it has, since, as we all know, the spiral of inflationary pressure that they (together with the Chavs) have exerted on the UK market is as clear as it is pernicious and was brought into sharp relief with the whole ticket price debate. It impacts on our squad-building because it renders us impotent to compete for those players we are probably, and genuinely, interested in. Gone are the days when we could trade punches with the other big clubs like we once did by signing Charlie Nicholas at a time when all the smart money had him heading to a serially-successful Liverpool. We now participate in a secondary market, as sure as we can be sure of Shell.
When I was a stripling, long before I had formed any emotional attachment to the Arsenal, I used to have a bit of a soft spot for Manchester City. I liked Colin Bell, Mike Summerbee and Big Joe Corrigan. I remember, even now, my collection of football cards and the pictures of men with bad hair. I liked City because they were NOT Man United – my brother had pictures of George Best all over his wall so, as with siblings everywhere, it was inevitable there would be a reaction, of sorts. (Hell, I could even find things to like about fat Franny Lee, even though there is evidence to suggest it was he who introduced the art of diving to the game in this country, long before it became fashionable to blame it on “the foreigners”).
So a part of me associates Man City with my childhood, but as I grew older, that soft spot was replaced by the feelings of sympathy you might project onto a continually beaten mongrel, until ultimately they themselves became just another team to beat. And when I look at Man City today, I simply see a manifestation of where the game has gone wrong.
On Sunday, I have the privilege of making my next pilgrimage to The Grove. Lots of the things I dislike will be on display. Their Manager, who my Legal Adviser assures me is nothing more than a trussed-up Teletubbie in need of a haircut. A substitutes bench that cost more than a hospital. The errant Tevez and Ballotelli , who no matter how often they shit on their own doorstep, remain continually indulged – the epitome of pragmatism over principle. So much to dislike.
We might not be able to compete with their fossil-fueled transfer policy. But we can give them a game of football. A performance from Arsenal, akin to the earlier contest at Eastlands (or better still the corresponding home fixture last season) will leave me well satisfied. More than most teams, I take great pleasure in Arsenal beating this lot. Let’s hope we can do what we should have done in September. Let’s get our first win of 2013.
We need the result for our limited ambitions in the league.
And to put the new rich in their place.
Apologies for the italics balls-up, oops. π³
I’ll get the next round aka “assist”……
Ziggy Stardust is back.!!
2.5 million hits on You tube for his new sgl.
new album coming as well.
whoopee.
Not sure how it got to 100 with no football on, but great assist/goalscoring combo from Dr Z and the Sweeper.
Tin Goal Machine
A fine strike from the Striker and many, many fine points from zico.
Have a good day, all in the UK. Hey ho, hey ho, it’s off to work…
COYG
Damn, that should have been a fins strike from the Sweeper. Bugger. I hope work goes better. Tata.
Cheers for 97, zico ( I’m no Wind so won’t bother with a global backdrink π )
Morning Ollie
very unusual for me to score and not know anything about it.!!
Cheers
Major Tom
Ode to Speyside
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Notre whisky provient de la distillation d’Γ©lΓ©ments naturels qui nous entourent. Nous utilisons l’eau douce et pure issue des Mannoch Hills. Nous choisissons le meilleur orge maltΓ©. Le whisky est ensuite lentement distillΓ© dans d’anciens alambics Γ col de cygne en cuivre et surveillΓ© de prΓ¨s, goutte par goutte, par nos artisans. Il est ensuite vieilli pendant douze ans dans de vieux tonneaux de chΓͺne, ce qui produit un whisky de single malt bien en bouche avec des arΓ΄mes de poires mΓ»res et de fruits parfumΓ©s. Il est aussi parfaitement Γ©quilibrΓ© et subtil en bouche avec une douceur veloutΓ©e et une finale vive et nette.
Ans 12 d’age
Speyside
Cardhu
Single malt
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FondΓ© 1824
DistillΓ© et embouteillΓ© en
Γcosse
The Cardhu Distillery
Morayshire, Scotland AB38 7RY
Adverts on the drinks? :s
I like the shape of the Cardhu bottle, can’t remember if I’ve ever tried it though.
Great debate from all above re Theo and ticket prices,il be be happy were stopping the rot with players leaving,fair play to his agents that’s what there paid for and as holic said they played a blinder,it’s also an insurance in case he does turn into his idol.good point about villa if he can get us the goals to get to the CL.why worry about his price tag after all the fans are paying enough money you deserve to see top players,that 70mill has to go somewhere π thought mbia of mountpellier was the best defender we played against this year would love to see him come to us tough as nails had girou in his pocket.
Bit too much to do at work to join in the debate at any greater length, but some quick points:
I think that the current ticket pricing is not sustainable in the long run. The moment games stop selling out on a regular basis is the moment when most of the big-wigs will stop going (because it will become somewhat unfashionable to go to footie) and the advertising revenues will start to drop because part of the attraction of the Premier League is the near-full stadiums. My ticket for Sunday was just over Β£80 which is already rather ridiculous and Trev’s Β£126 ticket is actually more expensive than the air fare for me to fly over to London normally is.
I don’t believe in wage caps because there are too many ways around them anyway. What I do believe in is, as I am quite sure I have said here before, capping the size of squads more rigidly than the current 17+8 version and also outlaw loans of players over the age of 21. That would give a much more level polaying field and consequently a much more competitive league I believe.
Zico, a cracking post@97.
Wind, see you Sunday!
Right, back to work…
Heh Ollie @ 107. I don’t think that Holic would object provided the fees were good.
Cardhu very nice and as you say, an interesting shaped bottle but trails Macallan, Glenlivet and Glenfarclas on quality. Not quite as Chamakh trails Messi, more like a Giroud.
Great stuff ‘Holic, cheers mate.
Dr Z @97 – Brilliant. Franny Lee was a fat tub of lard though! And Susan Boyle, seeing as you’re asking. π
Franny Lee was indeed a fat tub of lard at the end, but he was a tough bastard and scored a hatful of goals. Always loved that joke about Man City’s Chinese centre-forward – Lee One Pen. Or was it Lee Won Pen?
He was just as good training race horses if memory serves.
Heh Dk π
Nice one zico.
Wind @90, you will indeed. π
Well in for the ton, Clive. Always remember to take your protein pills and put your helmet on.
Happy new year to you all, I know it is a bit late but better late than never. Been too busy to read through the comments other than on this post but I have read all the posts.
Now I am off to read Arseblog’s yesterday’s post.
Happy New Year to you, First Lady. Welcome back π We need all the lasses we can get at this here saloon π Adds a bit of finery, methinks π
Ah! I have now received my e-mail from the Box Office telling me I have to collect the ticket.
I hope the envelope is gold plated for the price of P&P.
Grafted
Jamie Redknapp writes a piece in The Daily Mail this morning that comes around every few months, asking where the English ‘Silva, Mata or Cazorla’ is.
It’s a rather pointless exercise, but we’re more interested in the pictures the paper used to illustrate the story. As is standard with these sort of tales, they have grafted the heads of the three Spaniards onto three players in England kits.
With the help of a little deduction, the players they have chosen appear to be James Milner, Leon Osman and Steven Gerrard.
Well, we found it funny anyway.
heh
@106. Smitty, that appears to be French. But I did catch a rather pleasant hint of Scotch. π
Sweeper. Memorable goal @100. Long-distance strike, as in planet Earth is blue distance. π
Zico, Indeed there is no longer any half likable club in Manchester. Put City back at Maine Road with less profligate owners and they are a viable alternative to Man United in my eyes, but not now. Unless they have some club in League Two, maybe.
Great read at 97 by Zico π
And a lovely assist by the same man for Clive’s Stardust Belter at 100, well in π
Ollie @ 104, heh π
Lars/Trev, thanks for the confirmation, its a 4pm kick-off so I’ll aim to be at the Tollie for about 2:45pm to 3pm, we’ll see as I’ve got Church in the Morning and Revision in the Morning/Afternoon then Work at 5pm, Super Sunday indeed π
Afternoon all.
Great piece guvnor that has spawned healthy debate above, my feelings on Theo are pretty well documented on these very pages, I had a piece that was on the border of the cutoff a few posts ago, so I’ll just regurgatate that;
If Theo was at any other so called top club in any other country he most probably would of been shipped out ages ago.
The problem is that over the last few years weβve lost too many βstarsβ.
With all due respect, Theo is famous for just being famous, heβs never really done anything of note except for costing a lot of dough and getting an England call up at way too young an age. If you consider that there have been 3 World Cups since Theo joined us and the fact that he is still only 23 it puts into perspective the ridiculousness of this whole situation.
In which other team, when you look at his erradic contribution, would Theo honestly be considered a βstarβ? Yet here we are getting strung along by a wannabe. Heβs obviously got a degree of talent and potential, but arenβt those the very reasons we signed him eight, yes eight bloomin years ago? Iβm sure that if youβd of asked any gooner this time last year if they cared if Theo left the answer would of probably been a big fat βMEHβ.
Now I keep hearing stuff like βgive him what he wantsβ and its βimperative that he signsβ. Once again the media spotlight outshines his talent and real value 100 to 1. He has become the be all and end all of the Arsenal, if we lose him then we will forever cement our reputation as a selling club, the club that canβt keep hold of itβs βstarsβ, a feeder club for the big boys. The whole saga encapulates everything that is wrong with the game today, the brinkmanship from the player smiling smugly at the camera while his scumsucking agents hold the club over a barrell behind the scenes, sickening and itβs become beyond tedious. To tell the truth itβs come to the point where I literaly couldnβt give a toss either way and that is a sad place to be.
Nothing much has changed lately, we keep hearing he’s “about to sign” but it all seems like a three week injury lay off to me, the moment supreme is always hoving into view but is never reached, we’re all been treated like donkeys, never getting to that carrot on that damn stick.
Our chase of David Villa.
I can’t get too excited about that, I’m afraid, a few years ago, YES INDEED, now? Not so much. He was no doubt a briliant striker, but can he still do it now? I’m not convinced.
Look at our leg break victims, Eduardo, Diaby, Sagna and Ramsey, be honest, how well did they recover? Many of them are way younger then Villa. Plus they came back into a league they had already experienced, DV has only never played in La liga, there’s a major difference.
Snir, as always you make some great points and I love your passion, but DV as one of the top 3 strikers in the world? Not by a long shot, not anymore. I remember how passionitly you spoke about Podolski, when I voiced my concerns over the summer, I thought he would struggle, you believed he would adapt well. With half a season gone, I still believe he hasn’t quite yet gelled and hasn’t really adapted to the PL and I think that that would count double for Villa. If we do sign him then I hope I’m wrong, but it looks like a gamble to me.
Ticket Prices.
In a word, ridiculous. 126 quid for one game, fuck me. I showed that to a few of my mates who attend games regularly over here and that price just falls short of their entire season ticket.
The likes of the Oil sheiks have indeed distorted the prices, but Man U have been doing it for years too. They paid 30mill for Rooney when he was about seven years old and the same amount to acquire defenders, so lets not place the entire blame on the fossil fueled fuckers. We are also masters of our own demise being one of the major players in the forming of the
ExplotationPremier League. For those screaming to splash the cash and pay Feo “what he deserves”, well you can’t have it both ways, because in the end it will be you doing the cash splashing.City fans complaining about the price of going to see them compete against their “feeder club” however is so priceless that it completly banjaxed my IronicfuckwitOmeter. But on the otherhand it’s about time that someone took a stand (they can’t afford a seat) Maybe it will lead to changes, but that’s about as likely as them showing a bit of class.
BREAKING (SHATTERING, actually) news from the BBC website which confirms that AVB will not miss Adebayor in the slightest:
“TRANSFER LATEST
Tottenham boss Andre Villas-Boas says the club won’t be rushed into the transfer market because of Emmanuel Adebayor’s impending departure to the Africa Cup of Nations: “We’ve been happy with the team – we’ve been in this situation before when Ade was injured and I think we are able to cope with it.””
Heh Barman,
Thanks for fixing my italians π
Just out of interest, is there ANYONE on here who doesn’t think we need to sign at least one player this month?
N7.
I think the question should be;
Is there anybody here who believes we will sign a new player this month?
What’s this about an Italian match fixing scandal? I thought this was a slow news day. π
Actually, that would probably be old, or at least continual news …
But to answer your question, I believe that unless it’s a major coup, don’t ask me who, then I don’t really see the point.
I’d prefer we cut our cloth accordingly, i.e.change the tactics to complement the strengths of the team we have and stop trying to force square blocks into round holes.
H2H. It wouldn’t be a bad piece of business to take Song back at a lower salary, seeing as in December he was voted the second worst signing of the season in Spain by Marca.
Afternoon All
For the first time in a long time, I genuinely feel that the management of our beloved Arsenal i.e. board and manager are willing to let the quality of our team slide into mediocrity albeit based on their vision of sound business principles.
There is no logic in that statement, of course, from AW’s perspective i.e. why on earth would he be willing to tarnish a reputation built and nutured over a decade and a half within The Marble Halls.
The truth is, we are now a big but upper-middle premiership team in terms of overall ability that needs some well thought out squad investment to help restore our competitive prowess on the field of play.
I see no concrete intent to sign any player this month even though we need it if we are to help ensure a CL position this season and per chance a piece of silverware.
I hope I’m way off the mark with these comments but to my eyes, it’s high-time we started to re-invest in the squad to turn us back into genuine title contenders.
Does that answer your question N7?
PS: Trev, you are real gent with your posts. H2H & zico, great ‘mega-posts’.
8 ball, you win a prize (for your 129 in response to my 126)
Shopping for Shoes with Roxette
Say goodbye to all your own hair…… 8)
H2H – excellent post above.
Disagree with you on Podolski and whilst I understand the concerns you raise over Villa, I say take the risk. Spend some fecking money. In fact spend it all. Spend. Spend. Spend.
Yours,
Drunken Sailor *
*note – not a pirate
TS, I could see a ‘catastrophic few games – City and Chavs? – followed by panic bulk buys, reminiscent of the start of Last Season.
I was hoping for ‘Never again’, but it may be ‘DΓ©jΓ Vu’. π
Fingers crossed we can perform in all those games (West Spam and Swanseacup too), but I fear the infamous jadedness…..
zico drunk 3 days before the Tollie? :s Panic there too…
Just spend SOME f*cking money!
Seldom has not spending money been such an exciting spectator sport.
Wait. Do you mean to say once you make the signing you have to keep spending money to afford the signing? I didn’t think of that part.
I may of been a bit harsh on Poldi, but the expectations were high and although he has shown signs of what he can do, I feel that way too often the game just passes him by.
Ollie, yes that could be the intent.
Win all our games in January and cue ‘why do we need to buy?’
Wait until the following month when injuries may hit and inconsistent form may return and cue ‘we’ll be busy in the transfer market in the summer and we know what we need to do to strengthen’, etc.
I really, really hope that we don’t need to get tonked by Citeh, Swansea and C*nt$ki to kick-start Arsene into a knee-jerk reaction.
*returns to listening to Paint It Black*
I agree with H2H, Poldi is still bedding-in but he’s done OK and has been a decent signing so far.
Santi and Giroud have both been notch better than Poldi.
Heh! @ 8 ball
Having spent the last 7 seasons preaching calm at our fiscal prudence (read: unwillingness to spend some fcuking money) I find myself, in this particular window, extremely keen to see us get the chequebook out.
In seasons past I could understand why we might leave the wallet at home. We needed to pay down the stadium, the global economy was extremely volatile and, most of all, we had a squad that looked good enough to win, or at least compete, for major honours.
Sure, we often felt that one decent signing away from being a real force, and that could be frustrating, but we had some good kids coming through and it made sense to leave gaps for them to grow and flourish.
Here and now, in January 2013, I see a squad that looks a little thin, clear signs that we have spent the last two years in decline, a greatly improved financial position and a favourable looking market with few spenders and lots of clubs hitting debt issues (see this summer’s Cazorla bargain). I also see a first XI that does not look correctly balanced, and that hasn’t, in one way or another, since we narrowly lost at the Nou Camp. Square pegs in round holes.
I also see that the teams around us, competing a top four spot, seem stronger than they once were.
This, to me, looks like a transfer window in which you would spend some money, if you ever intended to spend any.
If we fail to spend a penny, I have to admit that I will be concerned. Not just about what’s going to happen out on the pitch, but also regarding what is going on behind the scenes. I understood the old logic for keeping our powder dry, but I’m not sure I see how it still continues to apply in our current circumstances.
We’ve been lead through the desert these last 7 years or so, and now I’d like to see some vague hint of the promised land. I’m not asking that we chuck hundreds of millions around, just some sign (be it a burning bush or a big barnetted Belgian) that we might once again be in a position to buy the players we need and not have to worry about turning a profit on transfers.
Retaining our stars of the future has been a good start. What I’d like to see now is a little bit of intent in the market.
Regardless, the squad and the manager will have my support, as ever.
COYG
<Raises head above parapet>
N7@127: Just out of interest, is there ANYONE on here who doesnβt think we need to sign at least one player this month?
Err, well, umm, yes. Me!
If there are players around who are available and available at around the right price, then yes we should sign them.
Now I come to re-read your original question, I find I’m not entirely sure what you mean. In particular what do you mean by “need”? Here are some similar questions that you didn’t ask, with my answers, and extra detail if I think that’s required.
Do I think we can win the title this season without new signings in January? No.
Do I think we can win the title this season if we sign at least one player in January? No. I rather suspect that even if we bought in a whole new squad – 25 players – we are far enough back that we won’t win the title.
Do I think we can qualify for the Champions’ League withoug new signings in January. Well, yes, actually. We are by no means out of touch with the scrap for fourth place. I rather suspect that Chel$ki won’t blow up as spectacularly as last season but I have boundless faith in the neighbours. Everton are a good side, but so are Arsenal. Everton are a better side than they were recently, and Arsenal are a worse side so it’s easy to assume that Everton are better than we are, I don’t assume or think that. West Brom aren’t a good side; they are overperforming at present. Liverpool are a much worse side than they were recently – see the argument above re Everton and note the word much. Swansea, Stoke, West Ham – see the argument above re West Brom.
Would I like Arsenal to make new signings in January? Yes, as long as they are the right signings. Unlike some, I (still) trust Arsène; if he makes any signings, I’m happy they will be the right ones.
Do I think we will make new signings in January? Well, no actually. I said as much towards the end of December and gave my reasons then. I’ve heard and read nothing since then to make me think anything significant has changed.
COYG
Thanks Oxon – that’s a really useful reply and I agree with pretty much all of it.
I suppose it comes down to how we interpret “need”. Do we “need” to buy? No – the club will go on regardless and we’ve a very good chance of finishing 4th or maybe even slightly higher this season.
Would it be prudent to buy a player or two this month (right players, right price), I would tend to think yes, for all the reasons I’ve elaborated above.
I can’t help but think it would be nice not to have to rely on our dopey neighbours to find new ways to shoot themselves in the foot, skilled as they are in that department. Stopped clocks, and all that.
Ahh, I see N7 has been back while I was composing my response above.
With one exception, I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said @145.
The sole exception is Here and now, in January 2013, I see a squad that looks a little thin, clear signs that we have spent the last two years in decline, a greatly improved financial position and a favourable looking market with few spenders and lots of clubs hitting debt issues (see this summerβs Cazorla bargain).
1) I suggest that the squad looks a little thin (actually, more than a little from where I sit) because we have lost four top-ranking players from the squad in those last two years. I think that was the cause of the decline rather than the effect.
2) I agree that the transfer market seems slow at present. This could be due to lack of sellers or lack of buyers. If it’s lack of sellers, that’s bad because we would need to spend large amounts of cash to persuade unwilling sellers into the market. If it’s a lack of buyers, that’s good because the sellers won’t expect, or require, as much cash. I’ve no idea what’s causing the apparently slow market – is there any well-documented reason to believe it’s buyers rather than sellers who are missing? Actually, I don’t even know whether the market truly is slow this year. I have no idea how the market has moved in the first ten days of previous January windows.
I wonder whether it’s significant that we both, independently, signed off with
COYG
Gaaah, it’s happened again π
I’m off to make myself some dinner know, so will be away from the keyboard for 20 minutes or so.
N7 is right, of course, I’d love not to have to rely on the swamp-dwellers’ pedal marksmanship and the right signing or two would help with that.
Dinner calls…
Laters
COYG
In seasons past I could understand why we might leave the wallet at home.
Bring Lars out. Now!
Excellent discussion N7 and Oxon from 145 thru 148. Pretty much sums up my own feelings.
Until the summer of 2011 it felt as if we were just one or two key signings away from a very competitive PL winning side but it all unraveled from that point and since then we have lost so many key players that we are nowhere near the top any longer.
The present team looks very unbalanced and whilst there are moments at which everything seems to gel there are long periods and whole matches in which the creative machine just seems broken.
I feel that we would be better if we could sign at least 2 players NOW to provide midfield power (as opposed to daintiness) and striker re-inforcements and I would be delighted if we could add a real winger to stretch oppo defences properly. But I don’t want any signing – no more Chamakhs, Parks, Squillaccis or Arshavins please. Get it right now, or in the summer, please, FFS.
COYRs.
Great discussion lads but I’m afraid I’ll have to leave for now………
Drink ’til I dropDart night. πWalcott should be the start of the signings,new keeper,left full,winger please.why should we slip into mediocrity,challenge for forth my arse this is arsenal.
Cheers TS.
H2H on the money re Theo Walcout.
How long is his signing going to be getting likelier/imminent/probable/done, but not announced/off ?
One third of the way through the window now and, as ever, no action at all (ok, a bit of outward).
This “we’ll be busy”, “we will address the weaknesses”, “maybe one or two of super super quality, if we can find them”, “let’s first keep the players that we have here” (not that we ever do), is driving me nuts.
Excuse me while I pop outside and try a good primal scream. π
I think Walcott signing is important to end the perceived selling club image and to suggest to potential incomers that this is a club with ambition and resources. Hopefully his recent improvement will continue.
Apparantly something utterly beyond belief happened yesterday – Diaby played part of a game of football.
Diaby is LAVVVOS (like a very very very old signing).
Before anyone attacks, I think Diaby has the ability to be an amazing player. I just really, really hope he is not our entire egg basket for this transfer window.
Evening Trev, I agree with you on Diaby – should be an ever-present midfield colossus by now. Damn shame.
Likewise I hope he’s not once again going to be used as the LANS to compensate for the lack of a new signing. But I wouldn’t bet against it.
Aha, it’s bath night! How are you, sir ?
I will believe that Walcott has signed when the club announce it.
Until then, my gut is still telling me he’s been tapped up for the summer.
Very well sir, yourself?
Up in town for Miss B’s birthday. Went for a nice meal and then a bit of culture last night.
Building up my morale for Sunday’s test of our mettle.
Too true N7 @159, too true…..
Oxon@148: I’m not sure the market is slower than usual. It’s the same every January – a few early signings are made and some get their knickers in a twist and think all other teams make signings, but the only big(ish) signing made so far is Ba to Chelsea. Sure, Spurs have signed Holtby (and you can surely debate the bigness of that signing, he might be a really good player but to me he does, from what little I have seen of him, have quite a lot of headless chicken abou him) but he won’t join until the summer and I’m quite sure you all agree we can not count Joe Cole to West Ham as particularly big a transfer. Nor, for that matter, Chamakh on loan.
After the initial signings, it usually calms down until about a week or so is left of the window and that is when things take off again. I seriously doubt we’ll get anyone in, but if we do I don’t think it will be within the next fortnight.
Ollie, my wallet only pays for drinks!
Not bad, thanks bath.
Got waylaid for a while there by dinner.
Will you be there on Sunday ?
Trev, yep looks like it – tho having to drum up the enthusiasm. Not a good sign.
Feeling that dirty, Trev 158? π
Baff, the zico wallet * is in town!
That should get your dander up, your juices flowing, your beer goggles on, your petard hoisted, your underwear overarm……your eeka!
*It looks conspicuously like the Lars wallet (which by some weird celestial co-incidence is also in town….)
Heh @ 165
He is in fact a LAVIS – like a very injured signing
Blimey Dr Z.
War of the Wallets on Sunday?
I don’t actually have a wallet – I am just going to stand next to Lars π
A Scotsman with a wallet, Ollie ? π
hehs.
Makes a change from :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08jOGYFZCkM
Are you coming on Eurostar Ollie ?
It’s expensive but at least it’s comfortable, whereas it’s murder on the Orient Express ! π
heh Trev. Well I did the bus coming back from London last game.
Heh @ zico 166 and hehs @ several others but esp zico @166.
“underwear overarm” – that’s a new one on me….but what a mental image…..can’t wait now.
Don’t know if people have looked at this guys art before but he got some pretty cool arsenal original art.
http://www.etsy.com/shop/Footynews
NorCal@175
Interesting stuff. Captures the look of most of the Invincibles but his Bergkamp turn cannot capture the dynamism of that wonderful moment.
A fine bunch in tonight, I see.
Good evening all, especially zico’s wallet π
Evening Guvnor.
Not to mention his overarm underwear. π
http://kembrel.s3.amazonaws.com/catalog/category/mightywallet_1_2.jpg
mighty thin though Ollie π
Heh.
Roxette says I’m under-armed – whatever could she mean??? π―
Perfect for a Scotsman then, baff π
The only underarms I know are Aussie test bowlers π
Zico @181,
I imagine just the obvious from whay she told Ollie.
And bath.
Oh, and me. π
Nah, fat wallets. Just deep pockets and short arms.
Holic, you mean the Aussie testees ? π
Come on now Trev, you know I don’t like people talking bollocks on here π
@ 183, but well thought of, in the chapel π
H2H – Poldi has 10 goals and 7 assists in six months in England.
To me, that’s settling well.
As for Villa, I truly believe he is far better than all the other strikers who are mentioned as top strikers such as Lewandowski, Cavani etc.
Hi all!
Some great back-drinking there. Well done to so many of you and thank you for giving me much to think about today!
So, regarding Theo’s situation…
I am tiring of the debate over the quantity of wages and whether or not he is worth it. Is it not a storm in a teacup with a tsunami raging outside?! What I mean is, when we are talking about whether or not to pay a man to kick a ball around, albeit at a much higher standard than most can or will ever do so, sums of between 70k and 110k PER WEEK has the horse not already bolted before the questiom even gets asked?!
Seriously, should Theo be paid 70k, 80k, 90k, 100k or 110k per week should surely not be the debate, the debate MUST surely be about what can be done to halt this increasingly ludicrous trend in football players wages. No?
A man kicking a ball around for more than 10k per week is silly, and 10k per week is probably around half what the average Englishmen earns in a year…26 times the average wage? Give me a break!
Anyway, I was also thinking over the past few days of something else that I am surprised that nobody has touched upon (or please correct me if this has been touched on and my speed-read version of the drinks are at fault here) but is it not possible that Wenger and Co. KNEW that they were going to cave in to Theo’s demands and thus wanted to wait until they got the Fab 5 signed up again first so as not to cause problems with their agents talking about “going rates” for an Arsenal player, let alone an EPL player?
Does it not seem a little odd when the deadlock has shown no sign of breaking for all these months and yet suddenly, almost out of the blue, the 5 young future stars sign up for probably the best part of “normal”, even “socialist” contracts and then up pops Theo with his shiny new 90k+ per week?
For example, how much could LJW have seriously asked for if Theo is earning 90k per week BEFORE he signed his new contract?
Which leads me to another question/fear…
How much trouble might this sneaky tactic affect the dressing room? Obviously we do not know if “sneaky tactic” is a fair assessment but I am pretty sure that if I worked for a company that did a similar thing, I would at least have my suspicions that I had been well and truly taken for a mug.
Moving swiftly along: Ticket prices…
I remember the last season that I had my season ticket and couldn’t afford to renew due to the jump in prices. That was when a season ticket was costing, if I remember rightly, Β£750, give or take.
Losing my seat was like losing the world. I couldn’t believe that my life had dealt me such an evil hand and yet, nowadays I could afford that ticket 3 or 4 times without thinking too much about it. Only trouble is, now, with 8 long trophy-less seasons behind us, I could only afford 1 or maybe 2 tickets and not 3 or 4. For the record we were at that time actually in the midsts of regularly winning trophies, winning the double, buying the best young talent Europe had to offer and challenging ManUre, our only real competition, to every title.
And the worst of it all, if I had a season ticket now I would not let it go regardless because, as Trev rightly said, the waiting list for a season ticket is about the only thing at Arsenal that is longer than the waiting list for a trophy or even Wenger’s nose when he starts lying, yet again, about our potential transfer activity.
Which leads me on to another topic: The Transfer Window…
WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS ABOUT?! It appears that we are going to go yet another window without performing the OBVIOUSLY required surgery that this team and club so desperately needs. I have said for weeks and months now that this squad is poor, probably the poorest under Wenger, and, although it has been a pretty fucking horrible first half of the season, judgement should be reserved, for the most part, until we see what happens in this window.
Well, it looks like precisely nothing is about to happen and I for one am REALLY pissed off about it!
Are we about to hear how the month was taking up sorting out Walcott’s contract and so there wasn’t time to buy anybody? Rosicky and Diaby like new players? Best squad we have ever had?
Nothing different, usual shit, total bollocks.
I will be here, or there whenever possible, supporting this club, these players (OK, NOT Santos!) and ALWAYS wishing for the best but I simply do not understand why there is not more being done by us to actually effect some change to the policies that are destroying our chances of ever winning silverware again. I am seeing Liverpool and not ManUre as our real competition these days in terms of league places.
How long do we have to see some of the best players in the world go out of the door (usually for a pittance in terms of their relative market value) as injury-prone fops are passed off as their replacements?
How long will Gazidis and PHW continue to disrespect the lifeblood of their business, the fans without anything ACTUALLY happening?
Yes, there is much gnashing of teeth at times, but ineffectual marches and AGM’s aside, what is REALLY being done? What CAN we do?
I would be genuinely interested to discuss this question and look forward to hearing/reading your views.
So, another “wind” of a post later and I will wander off to see what else I missed in the past hour of writing this!
Oh, and will be flying Sunday whilst the game is on so will only find out the result once I land. Obviously I will know the result before I have even collected my baggage, but, well, as you can imagine, that is going to be the worst flight EVER!
Just hoping that the landing brings some great news!
COME ON YOU GOOONERRRS!
Hmmm..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7gTtImrk58&feature=youtu.be
Looks like David Villa is scoring tonight.
Granted, Barça are only playing Cordoba, but he does the business no doubt.
We should laud his Arsenal DNA.
Two already Ollie. Don’t tell me he is past it. Go to 101greatgoals.com and watch them.
Oh well, we’ll ‘ave ‘im, then. Go do it Dick.
Zico@188: it was an ODI so there was no chance he’d be on a pair.
Good points TW. I feel your pain. Apart from empty seats (unsold, rather than absent season ticket holders), I don’t think fans have any leverage. As to the timing of the Feo deal, that never occurred to me and if that is true, then the club have been as Machiavellian as Feo’s agents. Not good.
I would have him in a heartbeat, but I don’t think he’s for sale.
baff, let’s not be silly, the club wanted that deal signed a long long time ago.
Chips ball into box “au Petit style”. (sighs)
*assists for the sake of it*
I mean, ‘scores’.
Chipped. Just up in the air. Just like a transfer window as an arsenal supporter.
returns earlier compliment
and you are right @ 198, I am sure.
Cheers baff
And in too late.
There wasn’t a supper dupper goal available anyway.
Well in, Ollie.
“He assists when he wants to….”
A strikers finish π
TW and Bath a little above: What Theo deal?
By all means practice your righteous indignation when there’s something to be indignant about. Right now there’s nothing, zilch, nix, nada. Be indignant about that if you like, but please, not about something that hasn’t happened yet and may never happen.
bathgooner:
First off, thanks for taking the time to read that post!
Regards Theo, it just all seems a bit odd that suddenly, almost out of nowhere, after Wenger explaining to the press how the wage structure is “socialist” and how it cannot be broken, we are suddenly looking at a player who, after not really living up to ANY of the hype of the past 8 years, is about to get the contract he was asking for all along as well as getting a serious look at the centre forward role.
If we went to so much trouble to explain why we weren’t going to give in to his demands, why are we now appearing to do so?!
Odd, at the very least, but I think that you are spot on and that “Machiavellian” is the best word to describe it.
Regards the “fan power”, I too feel that there is little that can be done, apart from hit them in the pocket, but with a season ticket waiting list longer than the queue for the lifeboats on the Titanic, it would take an incredible number of fans, maybe for a generation or so, to hand over their tickets before the club would even notice the difference.
But I am sure that some here have some other ideas…
Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
Oxon:
Do you not think that Theo will sign a new deal then?
And by the way, using phrases like “righteous indignation” not only serves to be fairly disregarding and disrespectful when in a forum dedicated solely to the discussion of all things Arsenal, but also serves to give the impression that feeling indignant about OUR club’s actions or lack of them is in some way prohibited here.
Am I reading that wrong or were you actually being righteously indignant?!?!
TW:
Really not sure. I thought the Dutchman was going to sign so I’ve lost a lot of confidence in my predictive powers.
I go out of my way to avoid reading anything in most of the papers that I’ve seen quoted making form predictions about Theo. Economically, I can see nothing in it for Theo to sign up for Arsenal. If he was motivated by non-economic factors I guess he would have signed by now. If I were forced to make a prediction, I’d probably predict that he’ll walk in the summer and we’ll get nowt.
Do you think he will sign a new deal?
Opinions expressed above are those of the author and are informed by nothing more than personal prejudice.
re Feo, as Oxon says, far to premature to spend any brain time fretting really.
re fans, might take less time than you think, there’s a world of difference between sitting on a waiting list and stumping up Β£1995 in June.
And by the way, I left out the word for in my righteously indignant post about righteous indignation. It should have read “By all means practice your righteous indignation for when there’s something…”.
I deny any suggestions of righteousness on my part.
Oxon – Good points all.
Will he sign? I have a feeling that he will, but, as stated above, I think that was “the agreement” Wenger aluded to being made in the summer. Something like, “we will cave in to what you want in return for you waiting until we have screwed 5 young players who genuinely want to be here and will sign for half of what you are going to get.”
Maybe I am just getting cynical in my old age, maybe Wenger & Co. are making me that way but maybe, just maybe, I am right!
I guess that only time will tell.
bath – Great point re the fans. A waiting list is a comfy and very cheap place to be!
Oxon – “For” or not, I still think that irony of your anti-righteous indignation post was the righteous indignation that it displayed!
Jusy sayin’ like!
Oh, and by the way, my own personal prejudice is the only reason I even come here!!! !’HA!
What bath said @213.
What did bath say @213 ?
Good Evening Your Indignant Righteousness,
Do please try not to be unreasoningly hostile in here. π
Oi Trev, a bit less of the unreasoningly indignant righteous hostility if you please!
Or was that Indignantly hostile unreasoningly righteousness?!
Feck…Now I really AM confused!
Keep getting my mucking words fuddled up!
TW – I haven’t read or heard anything about Wenger’s allusions to an agreement before yours above.
Regarding your hypothesis:
o I think the problem is that the five who have just signed will feel
that they’ve been screwed.
o I think it would be stupid to behave in a way that is likely to lead to
five of your best players, players upon whom you’re staking the
future of the club feeling that they’ve been screwed.
o I don’t think Wenger is stupid
So
o I don’t think that there was a plan to string Theo along until the
five signed, so as to depress the wages they would sign for.
You may well be becoming cynical, I’d like to think that you are a fan who has become so frustrated at the turn of recent events that you’re inventing far-fetched scenarios to try and explain them. But, maybe it’s I who is wrong! Me, I’m a great believer in the cock-up theory of history.
You have my permission to disagree, be indignant, or be righteous. As long as you are not abusive to fellow Gooners this is your place as well as mine.
Thank you Guv, but in all sorts of ways this is actually your place much more than it is any of ours.
Pour yourself a drink and set one up for TW on me (and Lars).
A man disappears down bar steps,with a piece of wounded sky.
I see the dead men shuffling in their bones
Young girls laughing on their mobile phones.
And looking from a low ridge
To Loch waters in the West
Where darkened hills are dreaming
I took a jar of pain to the soaking field
The smell of blood is everywhere
even in stone
Many people seem to be getting extremely agitated when no one, other than those intimately involved within the club, knows the level of activity being undertaken to negotiate transfers. The people involved are not stupid so it is safe to assume that various negotiations are ongoing and if agreements are reached then announcements will follow. As I am in complete agreement with the succinct analysis of TW by The Sweeper in 26 above I was pleased to see a report today, presumably a plant by Theo’s agents that the club have not presented any improved offer since last August
Oxon
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/9506826/Theo-Walcott-set-to-stay-at-Arsenal-after-coming-to-short-term-agreement-with-Arsene-Wenger.html
“Theo Walcott has reached a verbal agreement with ArsΓ¨ne Wenger…”
To clarify something…
I am NOT suggesting that the club have strung Theo along at all. Quite the opposite, in fact. I think it much more likely that the club AND Theo have strung out the “negotiations” until such time as they got the Fab 5 nailed down to “socialist” contracts BEFORE publicly agreeing to Theo’s demands.
But as you quit rightly state…The universe does have a bit of a cock-up thing going on for us Gooners of late!
Or maybe Wenger and Co. really have gotten THAT stupid. No signings in January and a fat kitty will tell us much about that!
Thanks for that ‘Holic, although I hope that it was obvious that was all in good fun, or at least it was from me…Not so sure about that Oxon fella…Think maybe banning him may be the only solution for his obviously indignant unreasoningly hostile righteousness!
π
Thanks for the juice Oxon (and Lars!) π
Joeos – I must admit, I haven’t seen that report, although I would be interested to read it and it could make for an interesting turnabout in the situation if that is genuinely the case.
Could you furnish me with a link please?!
Thanks for the link TW. I go slightly less far out of my way to avoid reading the Telegraph than I do to avoid the Mail, but I’d go at least a little way. However, I don’t actually believe that the paper would be privy to any private deal between Messrs Walcott and Wenger, I am confident that any public deal would be in writing, and would indeed have been published. I suspect, therefore, that the article was simple kite-flying by some journo with space on a page to fill, and/or an editor trying to sell papers. As such, I regret to say that I’m not going to follow the link.
I meant, above, to ask the bar where the “socialist” (not my quotation marks) description of the wage structure comes from. Wenger wasn’t born English, but I believe he’s lived in this country long enough to know that socialism isn’t a generally popular political ideology in this country. This leads me to suggest that the punctuation isn’t actually being used to highlight a direct quote from Arsène. On the other hand, it might well have sprung from one of any number of popular prints.
For the serially indignant, have a read at this, it might just save your life.
http://invinciblog.com/?p=676
With thanks to Dr C.
Villa just done his hamstring.
It was a nice dream while it lasted π
Oxon – Regards the article, it wasn’t the only place that I saw that at the time (I too avoid the Telegraph where possible so it is unlikely I found it there), although that is not to say that the original story didn’t come from there. I simply ran a quick Google search to get a link to the information.
I understand your reticence to read/believe it.
Regards the word “socialist”, I am actually putting it in quotes because I too highly doubt that Wenger would be so naive as to use that word and it is probably a made up word by the press.
I am, however, using it to demonstrate that Wenger did state categorically that the wage structure is designed to reward more players equally than other clubs appear to do and cut down on the number of overpaid big-time Charlies that must surely be prone to bringing about resentment within the dressing room.
If that is the plan and that is the Arsenal Way, surely breaking it for Theo would appear to fly in the face of the press releases, the statements made, the position we have appeared to have taken over the past 6 months with Theo and, more importantly, the recently signed contracts with the kids?
Awwww, feck…We just don’t actually KNOW anything at all, do we?!?!
Thanks for the chat. It has given me a lot to think about and that is EXACTLY why I came.
zico@230 Thanks for the link; I did read that one. Congratulations on signposting me to a post where both TW and I can have equal reason to feel we’ve been adversely criticised. (Gaaad that’s a convoluted sentence. Sorry.) I suspect invinciblog.com is a site I may have to re-visit. Thanks again.
Zico (and Dr C)
Loving that article…Will finish reading it later but have to pop out for a few minutes.
‘Holic:
Surely after such a long time out and now a new injury problem this is EXACTLY the time that we should be signing him?!
Would fit in just great!
TW Thanks, I enjoyed the chat too. I have a reasonably thick skin and high abuse tolerance limit, neither was seriously exercised this evening. I think using the term “righteous indignation” might have been more sarcastic than I should have been. Apologies.
Oxon – Actually I really liked that sentence!
Surely there is a flip side too…
We can also have equal reason to feel righteously indignant about the whole thing too π
Oh, TW! I read holic’s post and wondered how long it would be before someone made that sort of a crack. I’m sorry it was you and it was so soon.
No apology required! I actually enjoyed the irony, or at least the irony as I saw it anyway!
How about same time tomorrow we talk about why we still haven’t bought Ronaldo?!??!
Seems like a good enough player for us!
Glad we didn’t “exercise” too much too!
HAHAHA! Loving the obvious is my thing sir!
OK, maybe it was too soon, but if I hadn’t gotten in there quick somebody would surely have beaten me to it!
Take care and have a great day/night!
(For the avoidance of doubt, I am explicitly not suggesting that Thierry Wrightkamp has originated the suggestion that Arsenal’s wage structure is socialist.)
If the rush of recent comments about Arsenal’s wage structure is coming from the papers, it really is old news. As far as I recall it was first mentioned a couple of years ago, and the context was that Arsenal had tried to to introduce a flatter wage structure as part of the effort to cope with reduced financial muscle because of the new stadium. The idea, I believe, was to form a nucleus of young, talented, players who would learn the game together and come to maturity together. Once they had matured, it was hoped “the group” would sweep everything before them. It was realised that in order to keep “the group” together, they would have to be signed up to long-term contracts, and that the salaries would have to be high enough to induce them to sign the contracts in the first place.
A couple of years ago, as money began to become a little less tight, it was realised that this experiment had failed and we had been left with a number of players who weren’t actually pulling their weight, but were pulling in healthy salaries. This subset of “the group” came to be known as ‘dead wood’.
I must say that I’m sorry that this experiment failed – I’m sorry that anything which would turn Arsenal into the World-dominating football power that they should be has failed. I’m also sorry that a genuine attempt to behave differently from other clubs failed, if it had succeeded we’d have something qualitative to point to which distinguishes the Arsenal from other teams.
If I’ve misremembered or misunderstood anything, I’m sure it will be pointed out to me, but I won’t see it until tomorrow as my headache has returned and I’m going to go and get my head down.
Don’t drink too much chaps and chapettes. Night all.
Graham Hunter says Villa taken off as a precaution. Was only a tight hamstring.
The dream lives on π
zico @ 230 – great link thanks.
Nothing worse than a hamstring that won’t stand its’ round……
The obvious we’ll call it quip will have to float on as none of the ‘holics have short arms and deep pockets, thankfully.
Who said “apart from the bleeding gaffer!” π
Thierry — I think the egalitarian wage structure was put in place for a very pragmatic reason and not out of any moral stance: keeping a group of talented young players happy and motivated and grow them as a team. It had served its purpose, whether successfully or not depends entirely on how much positivity you can afford in your outlook — we managed to get the stadium (almost) paid off, continue competing in CL and with a little bit of luck may have got our hands to one or two trophies in that time period but on the other hands the stark reality is not only we didn’t win anything we also have fallen behind relative to our competition.
Now the question is whether that wage structure has outlived its purpose. Evidently. Obviously. And exceptions had been made along in the way anyway for exceptional talents: Cesc and RVP among the home-growns and say Arshavin or Podolski among the acquired ones. And obviously the kind of talents we fans would like to see being brought in would not be convinced to earn a few million quids less in a year just for the sake of team harmony. In other words, we would be compelled to pay what the market would dictate, and hence sometimes won’t be able to afford — even if we can manage to get the transfer fee out of our deep pockets — players Arsene would have otherwise liked.
So how is Theo any different? Obviously there are clubs that are willing to pay him the kind of money he thinks he deserves ( based on what he sees players to be earning ). But equally obviously there are aspects of playing for Arsenal that appeals to him — Arsene’s tutelage, the chance to play centrally now and then, maybe even his friendship with the ‘British Core’ — and hence there remains the scope for negotiation.
Let us think about it this way: if there were a fast, gifted (albeit erratic) English winger (who can also play centrally) playing for one of the other top fours with good PL and CL experiences, scoring ~ 15 goals and similar number of assists last season (goals + assists comparable to any other top wingers in the league including Valencia), already on nearly that many goals this year, and would be willing to join Arsenal in this transfer window, would we not have been clamoring to sign him up (no matter the fee or the wages)?
Yes, the statistics doesn’t tell the whole story of the infuriating inconsistency, but it does indicate an upward graph and the potential of what may come. As we cannot really afford to spend on most players who have already become (Falcao, for instance) sometimes we would have to gamble on players who are halfway there.
And I am sure Jack & co. would understand and see the rationale — they are in their early twenties, the world-wise cynicism has not opened/clouded their vision yet — for keeping Theo even if having to elevate him in the orbit of established ‘stars’ wage-wise.
BTW, with Chamakh loaned out it would be inexcusable to get into the second half of this troubled (but not entirely unpromising) campaign without a third striker. An example of crisis is the match against Man City: if Giroud is really 50-50 then basically there is a 50% probability that we would get into the match with Theo playing centrally and no back-up!! Well we have been here before — playing Arshavin as the central striker — but I seriously hope that lessons were learnt.
Also, how we can hope to sustain the campaign on PL, CL and FA cup without any alternative for Arteta as the defensive midfielder (and wasting Arteta as the defensive midfielder) as evidently Aresne thinks Coquelin has yet a bit to go before become the first choice is beyond me.
I have been one of Arsene’s biggest fan — but if we are to get to the second half of this season without a Striker and a DM brought in I will unfortunately have to agree that his habit of tightrope-walking has become an addiction in itself to the detriment of on-field performances.
Villa out for 3 weeks holic????????
I guess that means he is a shoe in to sign on Monday then?????
In the above post, not including Poldi as a central striker…because if he were to play centrally we really would have no rotational scope in the left wing with maybe Santi and Aaron and maybe even Santos being tried out. Santi on the left in some matches I would love to see with TR7 playing the orchestrator.
Either way, we would be a couple of injuries away from being seriously short of bench strength. Again.
plus Γ§a change, plus cβest la mΓͺme chose …
Unless, of course, reinforcements are brought in.
It’s a Barca 3 weeks Steve, so 3 days. Unlike an Arsenal 3 weeks, which means 3 months or an in memoriam notice, whichever comes soonest.
Steve T,
Beat me to saying that if Villa is injured he is as good as ours. Perfick! π
Look on the bright side then. If it is only 3 days at least he wont be announced as a “new signing.”
They are clever these Barca Bods…..
It’s almost like an anti medical Trev?????
We are certainly ground breaking if nothing else.
Seriously though, if D Villa’s hamstring has tightened playing Cordoba, what chance does it stand against ManUre or Stoke, or Bayern ?
Are we not to expect the same kind of Diabyesque muscle strains that have followed his long injury layoff.
Meh, who cares, let’s just get him and see. π
As much as I would welcome it, I would be absolutely amazed if David Villa signed for us in this window. We have more chance of signing Aston Villa??????
π
If any sort of deal for Villa was really in the offing, he wouldn’t have been playing tonight, would he ?
My thoughts exactly.
Oh well, just as well we all have total confidence in big Ivan and the gang???????
Blimey – Americals must be shut …
Psed – reports have just reached me via people who’ve met people, who know people, who know people in passing who have ears close to things, against stuff and in lots of pies, that Bevin may have been seen in and around an area, going into or coming out of somewhere. Shurely it’s only a question of time this time … hopefully.
Morning AL,
Mericals are still open we just keep raising or debt ceiling and driving off that cliff of irresponsibility, Thelma and Louise style!!
I’m doing my part, still at work ! Yippee!
Theo sign her ting yet?
Or= our debt ceiling.
Tickets for the Swansea game are being advertised in the metro today. It will be interesting to see how many actually turn up for that one?
Sue’em Grabbitt and Run have released the following statement for immediate publication:
STATEMENT
We wish to counter, as quickly and completely as possible, recent press speculation about our client. It is completely untrue that Mr Bevan has been, or gone into, or out of, anywhere, or has done anything. On the contrary, since the frenzy of speculation in the summer linking our client with Arsenal Football Club, he has remained completely motionless.
Our client further authorises us to say that while he finds the attention flattering he finds that living in a media bubble under the remorseless searchlight of media speculation and the target of long lenses particularly unhelpful during his current struggle with fixed location syndrome.
No questions will be taken and no further statements will be made on this matter.
ENDS
SG&R Sport Intl is an equal opportunity employer
Happy Birthday Holic.
Drinks before dinner, wine with dinner and after-dinner drinks. π
Heh @ 261
Just as well it wasn’t Bevin you were representing π
I always thought ‘holic’s birthday was on Sunday, but I think you are right, Dr Z. Makes more sense with the last sentence of the blog!
I just remember it’s a day one side of my old man’s birthday.
Happy Birthday Maestro!
Holics birthday is always on a Sunday?
Interesting.
Mr Adebayor is up to his antics, now he is NOT going to the ACN, what a drama queen.
Happy Birthday, Holic!
Happy birthday, Holic. MHRs
A holic birthday????? I feel sorry for your wallet Lars. There was even a disgusting tale doing the rounds that Zico actually had a wallet as well????
Have a good one.
Happy birthday Holic, wish you many more years of blogging excellence.
Top quality posts above, i really enjoyed the exchanges between TW and Oxon, Dr Faustus spoke my mind on all counts.
I read someone above say Santi and Olivier have performed marginally better than Poldi, it will interest you to know that Poldi has got more goals and assists than the both of them, my take on Poldi is that he’s quietly efficient and can be anonymous in a good way, he does the simple things excellently, you rarely see him beat a man with skill or dominate his marker physically but you can always be sure that he will find a way past his man more times than he will be stopped, he won’t lose the ball carelessly and most importantly 8 times out of 10 he will bury the chances he gets.
Heh @ 269
What have you been told about stuff you read on the internet? π
Agreed Cent.
zicodolski
I get the feeling quoting numbers will not be on, I have seen that post before from Roberto
Happy bday holic 3 pionts Sunday should be the wish,have a great day thanks for all your balanced and brilliant posts,drinks on zico Sunday.
Who let the brain donor out?
Happy Birthday Holic !
Greetings
Just caught the press conference. It seems to me that any xfers in will depend on whether Feo puts pen to paper. At the present rate of progress, the window will have closed and we will have missed the boat. AW referred to the returning TR7 and Diaby as though they would make up the balance of the squad. Same old, same old.
See you all on Sunday, not a happy bunny.
As always COYRs
Happy Birthday ‘Holic! Have a great day mate.
Interesting discussion on ticket pricing above. Arseblog’s piece to which ‘Holic alluded hit all the right notes for me. Going to a football match is now obscenely expensive. Itβs prohibitive cost is undeniable, though as N7 and others point out, it’s pretty rich for City supporters to be complaining about it, seemingly without a hint of self-awareness, when it is their Club and the Chavs who have done most to accelerate the upward spiral.
I completely agree with Trev. To argue that tickets are not too expensive, simply because a particular game has sold out, or that the game is merely too expensive βfor someβ, is to reduce the debate to market forces and to relegate the supporter to that of a consumer, whose wish to be at Arsenal is based on nothing more than a brand loyalty, a loyalty which is no stronger than a preference that might also compel him/her to shop at say Tesco’s rather than Sainsbury’s. It is nonsense, and insidious arrogant nonsense at that, to imply that that is all football is. It is the argument of someone who is either inordinately rich, or someone who simply doesn’t go. In short, it is crass, simplistic, myopic, a little bit revolting and just plain wrong (on every level).
Whilst most will accept that a premium has had to be paid for our new super-duper shiny new stadiums in the all new pristine plastic world of the Premiership, the cost of watching football is now so wholly out of kilter with other leisure/sporting pursuits that it is completely unsustainable. What other business would have gotten away with a 400% price hike in 15 years, as Arsenal did between 1997 and 2011? That kind of rise simply cannot go on ad infinitum.
Just because the Man City game “sells out” does not make the current pricing justifiable. A significant section of that crowd will be there despite huge misgivings as to what it has cost them to be there. Some will have maxed out their credit card, some will forego other things.
“Their choice” is the smug and complacent cry of the Johnny-come-lately armchair expert, and to a certain extent it is. Yet football is unlike any other business. Supporters have huge ties to their football Club, whether they be geographical, familial or individual.The devotion to one Club from early childhood is something that the Club does everything in it’s power to cultivate, outside of ticket concessions. To many, a football Club will give a sense of identity, community, and belonging. Hornby was right when he wrote in Fever Pitch that most of the crowd at Highbury on any given nondescript fixture on any given rainy Saturday throughout the eighties were there not because of the entertainment on view but for no other reason than that they β had to be thereβ.
The Clubs have exploited this support to the max. Isnβt that the way of the world? Charge what you can get away with? No, it appears to be a particularly English disease. A season ticket following one of the big Clubs in Germany can be bought for about Β£300. Consequently, Bundesliga games are played out in front of huge participatory crowds whose sense of exuberance might stem at least partially from the fact that the price of their being there has not rendered any other leisure pursuit unaffordable nor necessitated the taking out of a small mortgage.
Football in this country has ridden a bubble ever since the formation of The Premiership. Concerns over hooliganism and safety have given way to capacity crowds paying through the nose for the privilege of following their team. Those who have not been able to keep pace have been cast aside, no longer needed or, to a large extent, wanted. Football Clubs do this at their peril. I’m not as convinced as ‘Holic that a couple of cut-price Capital One Cup trips to the Emirates per season will engender the same kind of partisan loyalty in the present generation as fortnightly trips to the home of football did in past generations.
There has not been a bubble yet that has not burst. There are signs that the Premiership Bubble, whilst not exactly “fading away and dying” is not as strong as it once was. Chelsea can’t sell out Stamford Bridge for Champions League ties, Spurs could not attract enough people to fill their little ground for a crucial Europa League tie. Man City had plenty of vacant seats for their recent Premiership clash with Reading, whilst the noticeable gaps at the Emirates for the West Brom game suggested that the stayaways were rather more than just season ticket-holders who preferred to do a bit of Christmas shopping.
The bubble will burst. They always do. If the trickle of people staying away turns to a flood, the TV companies will no longer be willing to part with millions of wonga for the privilege of broadcasting games played out before half-empty stadia. The Clubs, including Arsenal, will once again be reliant on those that attend for no other reason than that they “had to be there”.
Let’s hope that the Club is rather more forward thinking in it’s attitude towards pricing than the muddled reductionism of “they’re just too expensive for some people”, otherwise it just might find that those who previously “had to be there” have already found, in the interim, something else to do.
Is that “unreasoningly hostile” enough? Bearing in mind the ridiculous jibe at “real fans” and the smug patronising tone that accompanied it, I really do hope so.
Excellent work tabsmeister.
A significant section of that crowd will be there despite huge misgivings as to what it has cost them to be there
Well, maybe not part of the crowd but she would have huge misgivings, if she knew the details π
tabs knows, as always.
Heh! Roxette knows π
zico, you mean that if she found out then it could cost you an arm and a leg in a very literal sense?
@ 285
Yes. And that is if she was in a good mood. I hate to think what else might go if she had been shunned by a Pirate π―
Top post tabs. Excellent analysis. You missed out only the phrase, “amoral rapacious capitalist pirates”.
It was on the tip of my tongue Bath π
Many Happy Returns Guv’ner.
Can we please refrain from all this pirate chat?
I can get all that at home….. π
Great post tabs.
But how do you find the time to eat your Daily Zinger burger amidst all that? π
Haha, I get ’em free Ollie, when you-know-who pops in π
Tabs – excellent post.
You have actually expressed exactly the anger I felt at those insinuations, but I toned my response down and argued my case with examples, precisely to avoid being accused of the “unreasoning hostility” which I then duly was.
You may have noticed that I even re-read the post in the most generous possible light, and apologised for my comments, in case I had misinterpreted the sense behind the words.
I have, of course, received no recognition of that apology, which I’m afraid makes me wonder what is the real motivation for both the original post and the very sharp response to the criticism of it.
We know, despite the accusations of some of the ‘doomers’ who occasionally drop in here, that all non-abusive opinions are welcome.
In future, though, I don’t think I will bother to restrain my hostility to the kind of arrogance that is just insulting to “real fans”.
Excellent post at 280 Tabs, I agree with literaly every word.
As one of the faithful “had to be there” during the 70’s and 80’s all this recent talk about the current extortionate prices got me reminising about what I did during the off season and the weekends Arsenal were not at Highbury way back when. I’d of had the same budget for every weekend, be it pocket money, or later own self hard earned and it probably would of been in the region of two or three quid for me to blow through.
The choices were usualy a split between a swim in the Hornsey Rd Bathes, a visit to the Sobell Centre, (Sports Centre also on the Hornsey Rd for those not familiar) or an outing to one of the two local cinemas, the ABC/Coronet on Holloway RD or the Odeon futher up just past the Nags Head. This means that all those trips would of cost around the same amount of lolly, admitedly I bunked in a lot of the times, but the point remains the same and that is that the rise in the price of watching a game of football has risen beyond the realms of sanity and decency.
I know that todays stadia are virtualy unrecognisable compared to the rickety piss soaked terraces of my youth, but the same could be said of the cinema going experience, yet could you imagine paying 126 notes to go see the newest Hollywood 3D HD THX surround sound blockbuster? Ofcourse you wouldn’t.
The matchgoing supporters have been exploited for years, we used to be treated like cattle and now they’re being fleeced like other members of a farmyard livestock.
I followed the Arsenal religously when London based, ofcourse now living abroad and running my own business it makes it neigh on impossible to go, but if I was still living in London I fear that I too would have been priced out of making my fortnightly pilgramage. Football’s got to check itself before it wrecks itself, without the fans it’s nothing but 22 blokes running around chasing a spherical object.
fleeced like pigs?
sheep? π
Fleeced bypigs?
Or is that unreasoning hostility…..
I once tried to fleece a rooster, but the cock got the jump on me.
He was evidently an early riser.
Just re-read your @48 post Trev. Nothing “unreasoning” or “hostile” in it.
A cost of Β£126 for ninety minutes football is self-evidently too expensive.
I haven’t checked recently but I would be interested to see how that compares to a ticket for a test match or a day at Wimbledon.
Ollies it……….
Ah …. Bang
Cheers H2H – lovely stuff yourself.
And you’re right about the analogy with the Cinema.
Well in Ivana
Well in Ivana, and nice assist H2H.
Back drinking – Zico – Franny Lee was the exciting one in the light blues in early 60s when I lived round the corner from Maine Road, as you were never sure when he would let fly an absolute belter
Re the ‘egalitarian’ ‘youth’ pay structure – this is all fine whilst every player stays inside the protective envelope, but , in reality, some progress faster than others and need extra recognition (LJW). This is then open to market forces and how does such a team cope with the rich offers coming in,and the temptations that come with higher wages and signing on fees
Cognac, are you suggesting Francis had some problems with flatulence?
He was certainly fatulent…..
Have we signed anyone yet ?
Wait……
Rosicky is back and so is Diaby = 2 new signings
Forgot to add Santos to that list that makes it:
3 new signings π
Thx for the assist H2H and well done TaBs on the earlier post and your usual position at 301.
Have a good day everyone.
And a very Happy birthday ‘Holic. Enjoy the weekend.
Here’s the prices for Wimbledon;
http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/tickets/201205091336561699698.html
I also checked out the Lords site and all I could find was this;
Adult
Over 65
Under 16
LV= CC (day 1-3)
Β£16
Β£8
Β£5
LV= CC (day 4)
Β£5
Β£2.50
FREE
CB40 League (Group matches)
Β£18
Β£9
Β£5
T20 Cup
Β£20 advance (Β£25 on the day)
Β£20 advance (Β£25 on the day)
Β£5
England Women’s international
Β£14
Β£7
Β£5
Oxford v Cambridge
Β£12
Β£6
Β£5
Inter-Services T20 Tournament
Β£15
Β£7.50
Β£5
Eton v Harrow
Β£18
Β£18
Β£18
MCC Universities Challenge Final
Β£12
Β£6
Β£5
National Village Cricket Championship Final
Β£12
Β£6
Β£5
===
According to a quick google an average visit to a cinema (Odeon) in London will run you between 10-22 quid which is a a hell of a lot more expensive then here, but still nowhere near as steep as footy.
On the other hand, you can watch a film on DVD for the first time.
Not every game is made into a DVD (but don’t tell Spu*s π )
I mean I don’t really think the Cinema is a valid comparison, ever.
Other sports, yes.
According to Arseblog today, AW is now saying we have a good, balanced squad and will be focussing on keeping the players we have, unless we buy one if one leaves, but we are not planning to send anyone else out ……….
Complete the above by referring to quotes from any previous transfer window of the last five years …..
I think we have been conned, and there’s a robot Wenger they wheel out for the interviews now.
Tomorrow I am going out to lunch.
I have booked in advance and told the restaurant I would like caviar.
When I get there, I am going to tell them that I am no longer sure that I want caviar or, indeed, any lunch at all, as it all depends on whether I can make room for any caviar before the end of the lunch period.
It might be that I have changed my mind and only want to buy sausages, even though I can afford the caviar.
On the other hand I might have a little bit of caviar afterwards but I want to concentrate first on keeping the sausages that I already have.
Really though, I don’t want any more sausages because I already have a cured sausage at home, which has been there now for several years, but is just showing signs of maturing nicely.
Trouble is, I paid well over the odds for the thing and now I’m not really sure what to do with it – should it be a starter, or form part of my central eating.
I could, of course, swap a few sausages for a little bit of caviar, but will the restaurant be happy to have my sausages back ?
Finally, I will tell the restaurant that I no longer have plans to buy any lunch at all.
If I am still alive, I will see some of you in The Tollie on Sunday π
heh Trev. That post is a lot more too complicated for me, struggle to make sense out of it.
Thankfully, that last sentence nails it!
See you on Sunday, the Happy Train will be renamed the Gravy Train.
Trev – Haha, I’d just accept that solids are for softies and have a beer mate π
H2H – Cheers for the links.
Ollie – you’re probably right in that the Cinema is not a valid comparison, but you don’t have to go back that far (pre-premiership I’m guessing), to find that a ticket for the football was roughly in line with a cinema. I’m not suggesting that that should still be the case, but the cost of Trev’s ticket roughly equates to 8 visits to the flicks – way too many imo.
Heh at the Spurs/dvd jibe π
Good stuff H2H, and another π at the Spuds DVD.
Ollie @315,
No worries – I don’t understand much of AW’s musings on transfers either. π
Work time.
heh Trev 315.
tabs, true, and I’ve always found Cinema to be waaay overpriced already.
When I say 315, I mean 318. Quite naturally.
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/szczesny-this-is-perfect-time-for-tough-run
Heh, I’m not sure Szcesny has actually watched a lot of Joe Hart: he’s made an incredible number of howlers recently.
Well, that or he is a very generous liar π
Trev. Don’t read tonight’s standard. AW trying to justify ticket prices.
You may remember some time ago posts that BTM and I wrote concerning fans and their right to voice their opinions at games? I have always felt that ticket prices are a direct influence on a fans tolerance level. If you pay Β£126 for your ticket and are not served the greatest of performance is it any wonder that fans boo? Sadly it will not get any better. Not until the grove is half full on a regular basis.
Ollie. the Cinema analogy is more to do with the increases in prices then comparing thye two passtimes.
Heh Trev, enjoy your lunch………….. If you have one.
What’s up holics!
It’s been a few days as work has pretty much consumed me. But, now I can relax for three days with Monday being off for me, hopefully with an Arse performance to remember
So, have we signed anyone yet?
‘ And those who were seen dancing, were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music’ ~ Nietzsche. Happy B’day Holic.
What you mean at the end of 324 Steve, is ‘half-empty’! π
Happy b’day ‘h
HaHa Sue’em
Norcal – good to know someone’s manning the store
Nice tome work tabs
Trev – beware of cults
Up The Arse all.
Oops pardon – Trev – beware cults!
And possibly caviar
I have always been the optimist Ollie.
Did you get my e mail?
Had better birthdays. Waiting for mother in law to come back into cardiac unit after stent procedure that was due to take 45 mins, 3 hours ago π
Not the arsenal medical team advising you on timings holic?
All the very best. I hope it all goes okay.
Sorry to hear that H.
I am doing the traditional beer after work thing.
You will just have to increase your intake on Sunday to compensate π
Fine parable Trev @314.
Ranks alongside the loaves and the fishes trick imho.
FWIW, I do think the cinema analogy is an excellent one.
Frankly, I think the Arse has been taking the piss since the mid 90s and have been getting smarter and smarter at it.
When the City boys stop paying for club level and a few of the boxes have to be heavily discounted to shift them, they’ll get the message. They don’t give a toss about the ordinary fans. They can be replaced with day trippers from all over Scandinavia (no offence Lars).
Sorry to hear about MiL, H. Hope things work out.
She’s back! Thanks all. Now to get to dinner with the neighbours. Relief all round.
Good to hear ‘h.
Enjoy your evening.
This day-tripper (from Southern Scandanavia-ish) is staying over.
You have nothing to lose but your liver.
And dignity. π
This is old news but both Geoff and Dean just tweeted that Theo has signed.
Fingers crossed here, Holic.
Oh, I see I hadn’t refreshed the page so I had missed the good news! π
Steve, yes, thanks, just replied.
Good stuff at 338, ‘holic!
For the second part though, I have heard these neighbours are a ‘bad influence’, so careful π
Can we have a non-twitter source please, Snir π
Snir, as always I don’t believe it until it’s on Arsenal.com π
And speaking of transfers: Nuri Sahin, you know the guy who would save our season and whom Arsene Wenger was an idiot to “let go” to Liverpool, has now been deemed surplus to requirements at Anfield Road and loaned to Dortmund.
I have no idea who Geoff and Dean are, but if they have just tweeted that, I suspect they are the sort of people I have no interest in following anyway π
Geoff and Dean used to do the cinema ads……..
Just saying like.
π
Geoff and Dean?
Didn’t they skate to the Bolero? π
I read that, Lars, and thought exactly the same thing.
Ollie. It’s yours. Catch up soon.
Fucking hell, I either win 3 in a row or lose 3 in a row!
/FIFA 13 online
You guys like a laugh don’t you :)?
They both have gotten stuff right on more than one occasion. For me, they’re reliable.
Glad things have worked out ‘Holic, enjoy your evening.
Hehs at the “Geoff and Dean” stuff π
Coming to a Cinema near you, “Theo Walcott signs da ting”!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCo1Ffn9_u8
Happy Birthday Holic and good news re the mother in law.
Theo sign da ting via Geoff & Dean….that’s a Pearler π mind you must be better than Chas & Dave !
Happy Birthday ‘holic. Fingers crossed for the mother-of-t’management
COYG
So, is this the shape of things to come?
Little old me, with a mere Red membership, has just received an e-mail from .Con offering me the opportunity to buy FOUR tickets for Liverpool at the end of the month!
I assume that is still a Category A game? So pricey.
Fewer Scandinavian day-trippers mid-week it seems. (No offence, again, Lars).
Ollie @ 322. Perhaps a little pre-match Jinx from Chezzer? He’s crafty like that.
And of course happy birthday ‘holic!
Yeah, I got that e-mail too, zico.
Happy Birthday Holic! π
Delia, if you see this, make yourself known to one of the Holics if you’re at the Tollie on Sunday! π I’ll be looking out for that ‘red beret’ again before everyone leaves for the game.
No offence taken.
What time are you wallet-people (Lars&zico) in on Sunday?
Ollie, I’ll probably be there banging on the door at opening time seeing as I don’t have much else to do before 12 π
Happy birthday, ‘Holic. Hope all remains well with your mother-in-law.
heh, oh dear.
I’ll be in St P at 12.30, but planning to stop to sample the pies at Piebury Corner on my way to the Tollie, so probably be there about 1.30 rather than 1.
Tabs@280. Spot on.
Anomaly between price and attendance: it is cheap to watch country cricket but grounds are usually all but empty.
Should be there for 12:30.
May have to disappear for a short interval to conduct “some business”.
It’s not all glamour in the world of the Locomotive Executive….. 8)
Trev@314: what would the sturgeon do, and what the pig? I think we should be told.
The EPL should take notice of what is happening to attendance in the NFL in the U.S. It hit an all time high in 2007 but has dropped season by season since. Last season it was 4.5% below its peak.
heh zico! π
I need to remember to collect my ticket at the Stadium before heading for the Tollie too. Something easily forgotten, hope there’s not too much queue (it opens at 1)
NBN,
The sturgeon, being a smooth operator (geddit !), will go to he who pays the highest price.
The pigs will try to gobble him up as soon as he gets there. π
Ned – Cheers. Interesting point re County Cricket. I would guess one of the major reasons is that the majority of county games are played during the week. I would also guess that the introduction of limited overs cricket pretty much sounded the death knell for the longer version of the game at County level, if not test level.
As a sidenote, I went to The Hove to watch Sussex vs Warwickshire in the County Championship on some midweek client beano a couple of summers ago and was surprised at how packed the place was. That said, given the size of the ground, the attendance was minimal when compared to the crowds football attracts.. From memory, I think the tickets were about Β£70 each. For that we got a four course lunch, and a chance to play cricket ourselves in the outfield when the game finished. Different world.
Heh zico,
Nipping out to top up the “collection” while in the Capital, eh ? π
Hey Tabs,
A “client beano” ? Thought you didn’t have a job !
Some folks round here need introducing to each other, methinks. π
Ollie, there was no queue (me and one other person), when I used Adam’s ticket for the Soton game and had to collect from the Stadium. As long as you’re there at one, I don’t think you’ll have a problem.
Heh Trev π
I won’t have to lie about my identity or pretend I’m a student either, tabs π
Heh Ollie, that was a tricky one to pull off π
Ibrahimocunt is being a bit shit tonight.
Is Dr Z meeting his dealer pre-game? It all sounds very covert!
I’ll bring my pipe. π
Need to know basis, you lot.
Rumour has it a rogue copy of the Feelgood Tapes have surfaced in the Big City…..
* has surfaced….
I’m losing track of the number of stories I need to be told by X, Y and Z in the Tollie on sunday.
I don’t even have to say anything anymore, everybody is quick to correct their own mistakes π
He really is being a cunt tonight, booked for dissent, just missing a red card for Ibrahimocunt really.
@ 387
The shame is too great to bear… π
386, I know who z is, but who is x…. and y? π
0-0, quite an underwhelming game.
French league maybe not a foregone conclusion, though I hate the current top 3 anyway.
Sadly and sorely missed Obraniak for the last 2 months (out again this weekend); Bordeaux could have been fighting for top spot.
Okay…Sparta Prague just bought David Lafata and Lukas Vacha in winter transfer window…real quality players and Lafata is our leagues top scorer in three consecutive seasons …I am going to piss myself laughing when they are going to knock Chavs out of Europa league:P
@392 – will Lafata be a Sparta starter ? π
Went to Sainsburys and had 14 yoghurts tonight.
I’m now completely mullered …….
La Fata sounds like a French bloke with flatulence????????
π
Pardon? π
Drops in, assists, and heads off to bed.
Night all.
Rips one ………from fart outside
That’s my girl….
Lurks it in
and a happy birthday to you, ‘holic.
glad the mil is getting back to spec.
ivana, that was a stinking shot.
lots of great drinks up above, usual suspects. not quite sure about the unreasoned hostility, though.
time to darken the sky blues on sunday, no silva lining for them at the new HOF.
Evening ‘h and many happy returns. And what a very interesting series of debates you’ve stirred up.
I have every sympathy with those who are being priced out of watching football. Now I confess I didn’t attend ‘back in the day’ when it was much less expensive, but frankly that’s my own fault. Do I hate that it’s so expensive now? Yes. But I can’t support the concept of us being self-sustaining (and maximising revenue from non-benefactor/borrowed sources – one of which is those who go to games) and complain when they charge us as much as they can get away with.
How else could they make it fairer then? They could reward loyalty I guess – which they sort of do as ST prices do work out cheaper than buying the equivalent per game. Those in the Away Scheme get slightly cheaper travel on the supporter coaches. And I don’t know for sure (as I don’t have children) but I think the kids’ family enclosure seats go from around Β£30 down to a tenner.
You have to hope that – as been pointed out above – the market will speak, and when the team starts playing to a half empty house they’ll have to look at the pricing structure and think again. Meanwhile, there is a highly active market in ‘spares’, a great many of which seem to be going for less than FV via Twitter for both the fixture this weekend and the Liverpool game.
As for us ‘overcharging’ City supporters, I’d have more sympathy for them if they hadn’t charged me Β£51 to visit their municipally funded stadium, and I hadn’t just been charged Β£59 for a ticket to the bus stop in Fulham, a club whose wanton profligacy kicked up a sizeable notch the ridiculous escalation in player wages that was originally started by the Sky money.
My ST works out at around Β£50 a game, probably somewhere midway between the most and least expensive. And that Β£50 doesn’t compare all that badly with what I pay for most away games, tickets for which this season have cost me as follows:
Orcs – Β£40
Red scallies – Β£48
$hitteh – Β£51
WHam- Β£49
Reading (COC) – Β£15
Naarge – Β£50
ManUre – Β£45
Aston Drizzle – Β£41
Blue scallies – Β£37
Reading – Β£40
Wigan – Β£25
Soton – Β£38
Swansea (FAC) – Β£30
Bus stop – Β£59
Sunnerlint – Β£30
So just over Β£600 so far for away games (skewed down a bit because of the price of the COCup ticket) compared with about the same amount for the home fixtures on my ST (albeit for a couple fewer games).
I could make it cheaper for myself with a less expensive season ticket, and I could also pay more – MUCH more. For all its faults on the commercial side (and there are many) the club is I believe trying to provide as wide a range of ticketing options as is possible to cater for what they know is a fan base with a wide range of incomes. Of course I would LOVE us to be able to offer STs for the prices they pay in Germany, but we’re not in Germany. And compared with our immediate competitors (i.e. other clubs in the PL) we’re not quite as uncompetitive as the ‘meeja’ have been making out.
Sorry – that turned out a bit longer than I’ originally intended. Pints for anyone still awake π
The transfer market is open, isn’t it? The calendar on the wall tells me so.
What the fuck Arsenal? What the fuck?
Very informative Snowman, cheers for that.
Evening all, and snowymeister too.
This evening I have been blessed, after a tough old day.
I am currently drinking 26 yo Tamdhu. It is truly the mutts.
Next up Lagavulin 16
Then finish the Tamdhu.
Sorry kids, none left for Sunday…
Top Man Snowy returns
*waves*
zico da man
Looking forward to Sunday. Weather may not be as bad as feared too…
Good stuff Snowy, and cheers for the Beer.
I pretty much agree with you that Arsenal aren’t as uncompetitive as the media makes out – the cost of your away tickets bears that out.
My rant earlier was aimed much more at the cost of Premiership football in general, rather than Arsenal in particular, and a mindset that just because people continue to fork out, the cost is somehow justified.
I do, however, think the comparison with Germany is a salient one. I am guessing, but I would doubt that the average Englander is better off than your average German. Germany have shown the way forward – get more people in at much more competitive prices- with no discernible difference to the competitiveness of their teams. Schalke showed that they were more than a match for us, whilst Dortmund gave City an absolute tonking.
For us to follow suit, it would merely take leadership on the part of the Premiership authorities to curb the power of the Sugar-Daddys (a problem they have managed to outlaw in Germany), and a will from the top to bring prices down.
I won’t hold my breath, given the past failures of The Premier League to impose any kind of control over it’s member Clubs. In all likelihood, the Clubs will continue to milk every last penny, until, as you say, the market turns. By then, it might be too late to reverse the trend, and the stars of tomorrow will probably all head to Germany to earn their fortunes.
Have a beer back.
Evening ‘H, glad the b’day drinks turned out well.
I’m not sure anybody debates like you lot. I’m a lucky boy.
Thank you.
Ah so I didn’t send EVERYone to sleep then π
Ta for the beer back TaBS. Interesting point about the German approach to Sugar Daddies – confess I don’t know nearly enough about how the BL is set up – that they have taken steps to exclude them is reason enough to love them, as if being able to stand and drink beer during a game weren’t already reasons enough…
Top Man Snowy, good to see you π
See you pre-game on Sunday at the Tollie? (Will be working 2nd half/Post-Game π )
Evenin’ Wind – and good to see you too. Yes I’ll be there. Shame you won’t see the 2nd half, but just think of all the beer/football tokens you’ll be earning….any way we can beam the match straight to your BlackBerry??
π
Haha I wish, firstly this poor ‘Berry has no 3G, and I don’t think it’d go down well if my manager & supervisors overhear me saying to the customer: “Hush up now with your queries! Can’t you see the Arsenal are on the Counter?!” π
Will be good to see you again after so long, will Kevin be present as well?
Interesting stuff Snowman,
I think what inspired the ire in Tabs and myself was not so much the way Arsenal are trying to compete, but the apparant attitude of one poster to those who, after decades of loyal support, find themselves unable to keep up, and excluded from what has been so special to them for such a long time.
What is becoming difficult for the club to justify is the need for such high prices, in order to earn the money to stay somewhat competitive, when all they seem to want to do is leave tens of millions of it sat in the bank.
Anyway, good to see you Snowman, do help yourself from the bar if it won’t have you up and tiddling all night, and see you Sunday. π
Heh – I see your point Wind – it’s probably a good idea to stick to behaviours that will keep you in employment…
No idea about Kevin – haven’t spoken to him this side of Christmas so don’t know if he’s going.
Go to sleep, all of you.
In this hemisphere π
I have one last classic malt to down… π
Hi Trev – good to see you too. Hope I didn’t unintentionally come over as being in any way dismissive of someone who after such a long time can no longer afford to go as that was not my intention at all, and I do recognise that ticket prices, even at the lower end of the scale, are not insubstantial. But at least they are still a scale i.e. a variety of options.
Interesting that at the Royal Opera House this forthcoming season the prices for Tosca and La bohΓ¨me (the operatic version of Category A) will range from Β£6 β Β£175 per ticket compared with Β£9.70/ Β£9 β Β£219.50 when it was last on a few years ago. So essentially the median price of a seat at the Royal Opera House is now about Β£4 LESS than median price of a seat at The Arsenal…
‘holic @ 416 – would that be an Ovaltine then? π
Is Tosca available, and if so, what position does he play? π
And on that note, I shall grab my coat, and take ‘Holic’s advice π
Ahh I see Snowy, no worries then π
The most peculiar thing just happened… I saw a letter with the Arsenal crest for me on the living room table so opened it thinking it would just be general information but inside was… Another Arsenal Membership Card. π The letter referred to the 2011-2012 season as well, I always wondered why I got duplicates of the managers official E-Mail and why I got another Membership Pack Last Season, must have been when i was charged Β£72 for 2 Red Memberships then refunded Β£36 for the mistake, hope that this new Membership Card doesn’t interfere with my original one, I mean, which one will they activate if I buy a ticket for a game? *frowns*
Just wondering what Snowy did to merit Top Man status …
Happy birthday ‘holic even if it was yesterday. π
Is this to say it would be a tad optimistic to say Theo will sign a new contract with Arsenal?
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-optimistic-over-walcott-situation
Good stuff ‘holic and happy b-day!
To attempt to rationalise football economics is futile and one comes across as rather incompetent, as the Telegraph has duly obliged (as it regularly does) if one does. Whilst the game is rife with corruption and dirty money laundering, one is wasting their sweet time! A just balance will inevitbly be reached with AFC at the forefront! π
Trev @314,
Big heh! π With you all the way Monsieur!
Very pissed too at our club’s transfer inactivity, and the length it’s taking on the resigning of that Walcott fella! Rumours are his symbiotic parasites are being their exceptional greedy cunty selves, more than usual. It’s bordering on arrogance, or incompetence if one prefers, to not at least bring in a specialised DM. “One in, one out” he says! Well, we’ve lost a striker and a central defender if i last counted correctly? ! That should be at least 2 in then if my remedial maths is at least upto scratch!
Just wanted to dive in and say Happy Birthday ‘Holic.
I know it is late but the keyboard on the PC in the house decided today was the day to run up the curtain so I had to get into the office to type anything!
Glad all worked out well with the Mo-in-Law. Genuinely.
Anyway, gotta pack and stuff so back off home and see you all next week sometime.
Take good care and…
COME ON YOU GOONERS!
8ball, Top Man Snowy earned Top Man status through being a Top Man, it really isn’t more complicated than that π
Hmm, “airpot”? Sounds more like something Dr F would indulge in…
Regarding the Bundesliga and it’s supporter friendly pricing, it’s only possible via a structure that ensures that corporate supporters’ and season tickets (which make up about 25% of match day tickets) are priced considerably higher than the average supporter’s ticket. This premium massively subsidises the more common supporters. In addition, foreign sugar daddy’s are discriminated against in Germany based on a form of “local nationalism”. Investment is only accepted by local supporters from wealthy local corporations or individuals that hail from that club’s home town or region. Money that is clearly from foreign oil Barons, investors, etc. (unless they hail from that club’s region) are prevented from entering the Bundesliga unless the individual has a DIRECT affiliation with the club that they wish to pump money into. Imagine if this applied within the EPL and throughout the rest of world football; how many foreign billionaire “Sugar Daddy” clubs would actually still be in existence? None in the UK and none in Western Europe that’s for sure! The Germans really do have it all worked out both for the benefit of their premier national league and for the benefit of their national team!
In addition, the Bundesliga limits season tickets to the bare minimum thereby opening access to most match-day tickets to a more varied cohort of “average supporters”. A highly desirable and fair way for all supporters both old and new to be able to see their favourite side play rather than the few of us that are highly privileged with long-standing season tickets which they, on occasion, choose to profiteer from every now and then when they so desire. Many know exactly who they are! π
Interesting piece by Amy L in the Guardian.
In particular the concluding paragraph:
Wenger says he does not find it painful to watch Van Persie delivering, decisively, game after game in a different shade of red. “But what is painful is to see United so far in front of us,” he says. “We knew when we sold him to United that would be the case.” That is a stark admission from Arsenal’s perspective.
A swipe at the Board for lacking ambition?
@ 427
Not till tomorrow π
Cant see it as anything else Zico. And not so much a swipe as a forearm smash compared to his previous (complete lack of negativity) comments regarding the club/board.
People maybe need to start seeing Wenger’s continued management of the club through the other end of the telescope. He could have walked long ago but has n’t (if I were him I would have stuck two fingers up and done so in August 2011). Why do people think anyone could come in do a better job in the current financial circumstances? I feel such people are sadly misinformed.
Well it certainly isn’t a vote of confidence in RvP’s replacement(s), Esso!
I do hope he writes that book, one day.
Sweet mother of Christ.
This is what you call a headache π
Plan for today. 4S, lunch, visit herself. The preview will be a late affair, I’m afraid.
Still love Islay? π
What did I teach you about 2G/3G, Wind?
I’m sure your BB has 3G, even if you don’t have data π
Good to see you here snowy, and interesting read at 402.
Good luck with your day, ‘holic.
My principal plan is just a haircut π
Off to meet Lars to watch the LWC’s get hammered and for what he euphemistically called a “warm up”.
Oh dear! π
Morning All,
Cheers DanC, and good posts re Germany.
Have we signed Tosca or Bevin yet ?
Arse the Wenger comments a swipe at the board or a reflection of the fact they new van Persie was just intent on leaving.
I think Esso and zico are probably right. Had we been more successful he wouldn’t have gone, and success is unlikely to result from selling your best players.
If there is no ambition shown in this transfer window, the club should bear in mind that season tickets have to be renewed long before the next window opened.
How long will people keep renewing on unfulfilled promises ?
I will, and therein lies the problem.
Lars, Tabs,
Have a good one, fellas.
Nasri saying he owes wenger for making him the man that he is,was arsene suppling growth hormones to the chinless lesbo?
What Trev said π
Lars and TaBS on the lash. Some lucky bastard landlord is going to make a fortune!
Morning.
Spot on Zico re lack of ambition. I agree totally. Perhaps its a lack of ambition over a number of years contributed to RVP’S departure? Whilst money clearly played a part I have always believed that it was not the single reason.
Bearing in mind posts 437 and 441 can someone confirm to me that London still stands before I set off tomorrow….. π
London will still be standing although the local cells may have 2 new residents?????
π
@ 440
Arsene may have made him the man he is, which suggests Wenger should not seek a career in sex re-assignment surgery…..
Afternoon Holics,
Heh @ 445
Fine post by Top Man Snowy whilst I was sound and round.
π zico,they don’t be long forgetting all he’s done as soon as the dollars are put in front of them.
Have fun, Lars&tabs!
Came across this summary of a Harvard Business School case study on Fergie and the secrets of his success managing the Mancs. Lots of parallels with AW jump out reading through it — keeping total control, building a club not a team, no player bigger than the club, support for youth, deep knowledge of game.
http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/7123.html
Cheers Lars & Tabs. I caught the last five minutes of the game on the telly. LWC frustration in evidence. π
Cheers Top Man Snowy. Who could question your TopManhood? :;
The scum draw at The Shithole Mk II.
St. Totts day is back in our own hands! Whoopee! π
Has it come to this? π
NBN,
You omitted loadsa money from your list …. Oh …..
TS@453, sadly it has, indeed.
Has it come to what? I’m baffled. Seriously. Since when were we supposed to feel guilty about smiling at Spu*s dropping points? :s
I’m onnly guessing the continuously shit weather is getting to some folks.
It is certainly getting to me? :s
As you can see from the extra ‘n’, and the stray ‘?’ .
*cries*
*offers hanky to Ollie*
Always a genuine joy for me to watch the LWCs faulter and choke, no issues there.
My point, I believe as understood by the esteemed gentlemen of Bristol & Avon Central, is that out joy is somewhat limited to achieving a higher league position than the scum rather than focussing on winning cups and titles with St.Totts day as a thoroughly enjoyable by-product of that.
Also, I don’t want to become a bitter and twisted football fan taking joy only in schadenfreude rather than achievement in its own right. That previous sentence used to / still does describe Totteringham Enthusiasts quite well.
St Totts day, much like 4th place, is like a trophy. π
Monsieur Ollie @ 436, qui, I remember my lesson on NLD walking to the stadium with you, GSM = 2G, GPRS = 2.5G (My Blackberry), 3G = 3G, 4GEE = 3.8G π
In the right corner of my Blackberry screen, its says gprs (I presume its not in capitals because I haven’t got an active internet booster) so that 2.5G, but its not the 3G-3G that the latest smartphones have. When I try to go on Youtube on the bus outside of an EDGE region of London (Elephant & Castle to Lower Marsh, Olympic Park in Stratford etc) it plays 2 seconds and buffers for the rest of it, I’ve usually given up by then π
When I see you tomorrow I’ll show you in person π
So the 1st week of exams is over, 4 down, 5 to go π―
I’ll say how I think I did on them by comparing them to Arsenal Players:
Biology F211: Santi Cazorla, a masterful display of guile and technique after 9 hours of revision prior.
Chemistry F321: Aaron Ramsey, too much effort expended into F211, mistakes were made but a decent/good performance regardless.
Biology F324, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, a newer player (1st time taking exam) and very promising performance, maturity beyond age.
Physics G481, Mikel Arteta, the epitome of a professional performance directly after F214, answers flowed like Guinness into Holics.
What do you all think? π
Bath – Your whiskey glass floweth half-full. Splendid π
Master Wind
I have marked your red-and-white paper at #460 and have decided to award you with an 8/10 scoringly.
My comments:
3G = UMTS utilising W-CDMA
4G = OFDMA
Yours with an unecessary and inappropriate patronising tone,
Edwin
PS: Has communications technology become more interesting than watching Arsenal’s developments in the transfer window?
heh, Wind, nice one, especially:
answers flowed like Guinness into Holics. haha.
Trev@454: π
Lars @ #426
I thought it was becuase he had a penchant for shopping at The Burton Group?
*consults rule book for a proper definition of “too much holding in the area” π
(Which was apparently the standout feature of the first half of Stoke v. Chelsea according to the BBC’s text description of the game.)
*Shudders upon having to rely on his imagination
It’s astonishing what a bit of money and administrative determination can do (probably mostly the former). It’s still the first half of January and Demba Ba has been playing in Chelsea’s first team like a natural for what seems like quite some time.
Checking the Bus Stop scoreline.
Do you mean Jonathan Walters, bt8? Didn’t know he scored for them, but the FF website has him as scoring twice for the Chavs :s
-scored
+signed
Afternoon Gooners
Snowy delighted to see you are an opera fan. I am a regular at the ROH and most of the pricing is related to the “star” quality of the cast. This coming season I am paying less than Β£60 for the likes of The Minotaur and Gloriana but in excess of Β£90 for Nabucco, Don Carlo and Donna del Lago, where there are super-star casts.We do get rather more for our money at the opera, Don Carlo e.g.lasts over 3hrs excluding the 2 intervals.
Whether the Β£94 i’ve paid for tomorrow and the Liverpool games will be worth it depends on which Arsenal turns up.
Am calling into the Tollie with Gooner Kevin pre Liverpool game, hope to see you then.
COYRs
What happened to late Saturday kick-offs?
It’s very hard to guess when there’s a game on or not these days….
Blimey, it’s cold!
I have to remind ‘holic to give the mascot a big wave from me tomorrow, as I think I’ll be a bit far from my post in the Clock End lower.
Matej Vydra, 14 goals for Watford so far in this season, being 20 years of age, huge czech talent..keep an eye on.
Not ‘keep an eye on’ : ‘Czech him out!’ π
Pun-tastic Ollie π
Only Trev can Prague about his punning exploits. I’m not worthy.
If it all goes pear-shaped on Sunday, we’ll be 20 points off the bottom and 21 points out of top, but still sixth. Even the best outcome — we win, Utd lose — will leave us 15 points off top, though fifth on goal difference. Fourth looks like a trophy more than ever.
Only one Czech I have eyes for 2 minutes on from now: Plasil.
3rd is still attainable. For now.
NBN
I’m with Ollie, we can, with a decent run of form, be going for a 3rd place trophy.
Results today were kind to us.
Only C*ntski winning was bad for us but even that was tempered with the thought of the orc amy and all their goblins getting humiliated in their own back-yard.
COYRRRs!!!
‘arry is in Rennes. Apparently mostly to watch M’Vila.
E’s no’ a wheeler-dealer, e’s a fackin foo’ball managa. (Allegedly)
One thing’s for sure, in the TW he’ll be back in full bung mode.
How things stood at this point last year compared to now:
Team | (Games Played) | 2012-13 points v 2011-12 points | Difference | Points out of first, this season v last
Man U (21) 52 v 48 +4 0 v 3
Man City (21) 45 v 51 -6 7 v 0
Chelsea (21) 41 v 40 +1 11 v 11
Tottenham(22) 40 v 46 -6 12 v 6
Everton (22) 37 v 26 +11 15 v 26
Arsenal (20) 34 v 36 -2 18 v 12
In terms of raw points we have only two fewer than at this point last year, but we are significantly further out of first place.
TS@480: I agree that third is obtainable. Win tomorrow and win the game in hand over the LWCs and we are in fourth and probably only four points out of third and five out of second. 18 games left, 54 more points up for grabs. Game on — if we can find some consistency.
Nice work NBN
In fact the LWCs are, relatively speaking, even more out of position than we are year on year.
Happy belated birthday Holic!
Not even halfway through the transfer window and yet it looks like my patience is wearing thin. Still, I hope Arsene is working in the background to surprise us all with top, top signings. Which is to say a lack of incoming players won’t be a surprise at all.
Just dropped in to add that Giroud has passed his fitness test and will be in the squad tomorrow, as he confirmed via twitter. I hope the Ems will be in full voice tomorrow supporting our boys. City are without Aguero and Yaya Toure, we have a full squad to choose from. Minus Gervinho. Surely there’s no better time to face them?
COYG.
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Now to find a Bordeaux stream…