And It’s No From Me
Jul 24th, 2013 by 'holic
It seems there is only one topic of conversation today. I am denying any responsibility despite having somewhat mischievously mooted the prospect of Luis Suarez as a potential target on the end of season Google hangout with Arseblogger, GS from Gunnerblog, and Andrew Allen. Generally forgotten, it seems, has been the second part of my assessment of him then as “a goalscorer and a horrible little shit”.
In my defence it was a somewhat tongue in cheek suggestion but grounded in the fact that he has the qualities we so sorely need. Suarez the footballer would be an asset to any club when his attitude is right. However I cannot help but be persuaded by the arguments of those he has most offended with his behaviour towards Patrice Evra that this is an individual who we should not be courting, especially at the sort of money that would have got us Gonzalo Higuain and at least one other quality player.
With Higuain seemingly set to becoming a Napoli player as I type we appear to have placed most, if not all, of our eggs in a particularly unattractive basket. Of course should the deal come to fruition Suarez would be capable of swaying hearts and minds by knuckling down, scoring and creating goals, and demonstrating a hitherto unseen capacity for staying out of the disciplinary limelight. All of the evidence suggests, however, that we are attempting to splash a club record fee on a player who could spend large numbers of matches watching, suspended, from the stands.
In next season’s end of season hangout come and hear why I think a bid for Patrice Evra could be on the cards.
Thank you all
A quick thanks to all for your comments on the last piece, and the incredible respect and affection shown to Gooner Terry. In an increasingly confrontational atmosphere elsewhere I think Terry would be smiling that for a couple of days he had prompted something of a haven from the storms erupting elsewhere.
You never surprise me.
352 Responses to “And It’s No From Me”
Bang….. Get in.
man, i hope a complete conversion from the “horrible little shit” happens, a milagro of the highest order. even if he doesn’t wear the cannon.
either way, we can hold you responsible, yeah? π
I have decided (after having lost my cool a bit over the last few days…) to just sit back and see what happens with Suarez and whatever else targets we have. I’m done trying to make any sense of what the hell is going on.
Why wait to suggest Evra for next season? Not too long ago we bought a French defender from United a little long in the tooth and we are a bit short at left back!
If it’s Suarez or nothing, give me Suarez.
Ideal scenario – Real Madrid use the Higuain cash to buy Bale, gutting Spurs on August 31st. We buy Suarez because they can’t afford to buy him after landing Galen, he scores so many goals we win the league, Real Madrid want him next summer, we sell at a profit and the winning season is enough to kick us on for a good few years, as “unbelievable belief” kicks in.
I could live with that.
After signing Reina, Higuain, Calejon and Albiol for 60 mill., Napoli are trying for Jackson Martinez at 30-35 million.
http://www.gianlucadimarzio.com/calciomercato/recent-update-on-jackson-martinez/
That’s the way to spend your money and please you fans.
The whole situation surrounding the club I find quite bizarre. There is no doubt that Suarez is a top player, but the baggage that he comes with is way too much for me. Personally I can not fathom why we would offer over Β£40 million for Suarez but baulk at Β£32 million for Higuain. We have now made an offer that means we can talk to Suarez???? Fantastic. That takes us a long way forward. I will be amazed if Liverpool sell him to us, and even more amazed if it is for Β£40 million. If Madrid come in with an offer I will be amazed if we are not discarded like an old rag doll.
I do not know what the board are doing. I am even less convinced that they know at this stage. The season is just over 3 weeks away to the start of the season and quite frankly we are in a mess. I’m bored with being told to relax. The fact that we are this close to the start of the season and no further forward I personally find a tad worrying. You would want players in place and training with their new team.
You would sincerely hope that there is lots going on behind the scenes that we don’t see. The one thing I do know is that if those I’m charge fuck this up then they may find that the locals tolerance levels have been well and truly eroded.
Here’s hoping.
If anyone’s interested in a season ticket for the coming season then reply to this…
I’ve got one available with or without cup games.
I still cannot get my head round it.
And if we don’t get Suarez, what’s plan C?
Plan C Zico?????? I’m impressed you thought we actually had a plan B???
A no from me aswell.
You all know we’ll end up with Papiss Cisse!
I always take the view that what happens in the past should stay in the past when a player comes to Arsenal. Suarez,should he come,and I find myself still doubting the whole episode as if I have been at the magic mushrooms, starts with a clean late. It may be arrogant but U believe Arsenal Football Club is special and can change people for the better. The problem may be a rapacious set of gobshites in the media who would like nothing better than for him to take a chunk out of RVP or dive o try to win a pen when not touched.
He has breathtaking skill and I think our bid is genuine. I would have preferred Higuain but if he dons our shirt he will have my unconditional support until he ceases to merit it.
Pip!
Good to see you. Hope all is well.
Pip, you joke but don’t forget we were heavily linked with Peter O’dimthingummy a couple of years ago. He’s well in our usual price bracket now
Evening Holic,
you have mail.
Only Arsenal could emerge from years of financial hardship and prepare to smash their record transfer spend by around three times, and simultaneously upset half the fan base.
There was a great debate in the previous set of drinks but one, by NB1, Tabs and N7, as to the acceptability or otherwise of Suarez.
I am happy to accept the judgement of two great contributors like Tabs and N7, who will understand and interpret the Suarez / Evra report far more competently than I could.
However, the fact that there is so much division and residual offence being caused by those “racist” allegations, is going to make it pretty difficult to genuinely cheer Suarez, however many goals he scores for us.
This is all assuming, of course, that we succeed in signing him – which is looking increasingly unlikely.
How about we nick Soldado from under the Spuds’ noses – he seems to be the next best striker who remains available.
Or we just settle for another season of Bendt. . . . . .
I’ll get me coat π
Are we in danger of missing the bigger picture here?
I’ll tell you what I wanted from this summer: evidence of money. Evidence that we are finally ready to push on and spend. Evidence that our collective patience over the last 8 years has not been in vain. Evidence that the future for this football club was not simply sell-to-buy, Ivan’s annual mea culpa and “like a new” signings.
Last night I got my evidence. We bid close to the British transfer record.
I would far, far rather be worrying about whether the club knows how to spend its money than whether it actually has any at all.
And I think the events of the last 48 hours drive a dagger through the heart of the notion that our manager “refuses” to spend.
Re: Suarez, I totally understand the range of opinion, but perhaps not the depth. I can see why people might have misgivings, but I’ve heard people talking about him today (not on here) as if he kills orphans. Some perspective required.
can someone please rid me of this troublesome transfer window. . .
I am going to speculate once again and say that we could comfortably switch our attention to which of the Fellaini/Cesc or Ginter/Williams is our next player. Because Suarez seems all but done.
We are going to have to really pay for this guy if this moves forward. Number one option or desperation? I think the latter given all of the comments from the management regarding money to spend….and if you don’t spend it any goodwill gained is out the door. Have to say, I’m not sure about this one as the guy is a complete twat.
Furthermore, I think we would be better off spending for depth (I know Suarez represents striker depth)….meaning two or three signings vs. one big one who is suspended for the first six games.
I’m not Suarez’s biggest fan but I wish people would stop comparing Higuain favourably. Suarez is in a different class!!
sorry to have missed Clive’s fine words about your fellow Holic, Terry.
Being new here I sadly have missed his posts, but judging from all your great responses he must have been a very special person, and a great Gooner. Victory through Harmony.
Cynic – tut tut. not impressed.
I would not like Suarez to sign for the Arsenal.
It’s not a high moral ground issue for me, it’s more that I always associated Arsenal with a bit of class (maybe naively) but this guy is a toe rag on the pitch. And it’s not that I’m forgetting any of our past tough tackling players with off field problems or that all of today’s players are squeaky clean.
This guy bites, constantly cheats and is a racist. For me, he’s not what I want to cheer for when I make my few trips over each year. I know his football skills could make a breakthrough difference but it would feel a bit dirty. I will always support the club but with this guy I would feel uneasy giving my normal unbridled support to all of the team turned out on the pitch.
Time for
Steve T
Higuain, Suarez, Bendtner? π
Would it blow anyone’s mind if I were to show you an article in which it is suggested that Gonzalo Higuain used virtually the same term Suarez was accused of using in the Evra incident?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/barcelona/9257507/Barcelona-defend-Lionel-Messi-over-Royston-Drenthe-racism-accusations.html
Am sick of the whole transfer saga. Time for wenger to step down.I’m afraid he has lost it.This player is trouble,too much money is being spent on one, player,when we need a new spine..thankyou but time you went,you are stubborn and have by far too much control over the club,someone needs to stand up to him
Anywho,
Back to dirty transfer mullarkies.
Is there evidence the Club know what the Plan A actually is?
Well, by all accounts we never ever made a bid for Higuain, but the club never denied they didn’t, if you understand me.
Are Liverpool talking about our bids in public so Arsenal’s bids must be genuine, right? The Suarez deal seems to be being created by his Agent(s).
Suarez is a skanger, but football wise he is more of what Arsenal need than Higgy. higgy seems to have bugger all ambition if he is going to Napoli.
If we do get the bity little fuck, we are guaranteed the extra 20 goals we need to win the league this season. Will I be proud of him as a new Gunner? not likely, but if he bags 20+plus goals i’ll deal with it.
And if this deal falls apart, we are truly fucked with no back up plan in sight. Apart from giving TGSTEL a last chance.
My favorite Arsenal player.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/tomas-rosicky-vows-play-every-2085194?
Give him a new contract, he deserves it.
One Niklas Bendtner,
There’s only one Niklas Bendtner …….
It just seems like there are 35 of them, and we’ve got the lot π
In other news, is she Almunia’s relative?
http://www.pbh2.com/sports/the-worst-soccer-goalie-ever/?utm_source=outbrainpaid&utm_medium=ppc
As for the plan C, if we somehow miss on Suarez. It is Dzeko.
Unless this is all a smokescreen within a smoke screen within the mother of all halls of mirrors… And the real transfer target will be unmasked later, just like at the end of a scooby do cartoon.
Would Β£40m plus Β£150,000 a week get us Lewandowski? surely Dortmund would bite our arm off (pun intended) rather than see their asset go to a bitter rival on a Bozman next year. And apparently that wage is four times what he is on now. Sound familiar?
Poldi, and Shezzy, start tapping him up!
Lewandowski has already committed to Bayern.
Soldado (mentioned above) is 29 next season and would cost the best part of Β£30m.
I think Lurky may be right: Dzeko as plan C, or perhaps a bid for Benteke.
N7
My reading of the small print in the Bosman legal case is a bit non-exist ant, but the club can sell him to whoever they bloody want while they still own the contract, provided personal germs are agreeable and wages will not be an issue.
remember we tried to drum up some interest in the grecian2000 shystefrom other clubs, rather than let him become a bad influence at the club in his last year under contract.
I can’t see the Dormund fans loving him staying there if he has committed to going to the German version of the manc scum.
DC @ 36
I guess you never know, but the fact that no one seems to have really tried for the player this summer suggests to me that he’s not even listening to offers – he’s already at Bayern in his own mind.
More’s the pity.
Err.
Personal terms
Suarez is double d player Higuain is, Suarez in a RM team wuld always bench Benzema. So I can’t simply fathom Y sm1 wuld tink it ridiculous vat Arsenal stopped short of payin 32m 4 Higuain when dy ‘tink’ dy can gt double d player 4 40m,it mks sense except u gt d funny feeln vat d 40m is very short of wht liverpool r willin to accept #watchthedramaunfold.
N7
I’m clutching at straws.
I’ve no clue what the hell is going on.
My worst fear is that Ivan doesn’t either.
summer hell is the constant stream of newsnow and skysports feeds.
It could be worse, look at the manure and just, well laugh.
Gollum can’t win a game on tour, Shrek is going, and Hell will freeze over before Cesc gives them the time of day.
3-way scrap for the EPL between us, chavs and β¬ity.
Spuds, manure and whoever for the Europa spots.
I’ll drink to all that DC.
Hopefully we might start to get a bit of clarity in the next few days as to what is going on.
39 Trask
I think the French legal system doesn’t take a case of child rape lightly.
RM could be missing him for a 5-10 year stretch, if justice prevails.
N7
Just a bit of Claret will do!
Cheers.
Here I tried to provide evidence that Arsenal dropped Higuain and decided to make Suarez their number one target after finding out Madrid unprofessional manner. Complete with transfer timeline. Check it out and you’ll see that Arsenal is bloody serious and pretty confident of getting him. http://benhan8.wordpress.com/2013/07/24/the-new-badass-arsenal/
For people asking why balk at Higuain for the increased price … Higuain needs service. He’s a more clinical Giroud. Saurez can turn something out of nothing. Is our club better off with a Henry, RVP type of striker who can create or a classic #9? I say a striker that can create. That said, I don’t want that Douche anywhere near our club. Just saying that’s why I think AW is more enamored with Saurez.
Marco Reus would be a better bet for Β£40+. Him plus Fellaini and I’d be confident of challenging for trophies.
As for strikers, it’s not like we weren’t up there with goals scored last year, and if the Suarez bid fails I reckon what we have – Poldi, OG, Theo, with contributions from midfield – are about as good as we could find now anyway.
Oskar
Re: Cynic @5. Have you coined a phrase with “unbelievable belief”? We could use some of that. π
It sounds like AW made a direct comparison of the talents of Higuain and Suarez and decided he wants to have Suarez. Not something I would have predicted but when have I ever predicted anything correctly?
Just back drinking and talking to myself apparently, but I agree with double canister @29. I will also just have to deal with it if we get Saurez.
Cannons, I guess by the time you read this you will know, but your Twitter account has been hacked.
The news coverage of Arsenal’s 40 million plus one bid for Suarez is very interesting in this respect: The “plus one” is being discussed as much or more than the 40 million. They are calling the “plus one” cheeky, which can only be a good omen. I hope. π
Re: Lurky @32. I hope she has other talents. π
I’ve always maintained that the question for me is NOT if Suarez is Racist or not, it’s ‘did he make derogatory comments at/to a fellow human being with reference to his skin colour?’ If we do sign him my support for the club won’t shake, I might even cheer for him but the truth is that no matter how many goals he scores, assists, or the trophies he wins for/with us he will still be someone who ‘doesn’t talk to black people’ who will ‘kick you because you’re black’ in my eyes.
Now you might say that ‘Negrita’ is a form of endearment in Uruguay but please remember that in every language Homonyms, Homophones, Homographs and words generally, derive their meaning from the context they are used in e.g. ‘You’re as tall as a crane’ might be a compliment to a tall person but it definitely makes mockery of a short person, it can as well be offensive to a very tall person so it also comes down to the way these words are spoken, bearing that in mind you can’t tell me that Suarez used the word as a form of endearment to Evra at that moment.
We will never be able to read Suarez’ mind to find out if he despises black people or not but what we have as a fact, in my opinion, is that he once made derogatory remarks at/to a person with reference to their skin colour, that one occurrence is enough for me to not want him, Racist or not, to represent an institution that is a huge part of my life.
Having said that, I totally understand the people who are, for want of evidence, not convinced that he abused Evra racially.
N7 – Why would Benteke be a plan C when he’s just signed a new contract that will see Villa asking even more than the daft Β£25m they already wanted?
If Wenger wants Suarez, Suarez is plans A-Z and if he doesn’t get him, I don’t think he will sign a striker.
Why is it we take forever to buy players AND get rid of them, by the way? Gervinho was being sold two weeks ago and he is still hanging about. Get him gone, if he is going.
Incidentally, if Suarez does come in it would not completely shock me to see Podolski sold…
I hate transfer windows.
The fact Suarez has permission to talk to us means very little. The Β£40, with or without the extra Β£1, only triggers a clause in his contract which allows this to happen, it doesn’t mean Pool have to accept that for him. Right now they know we are desperate (or at least appear so) and will just keep quoting the kind of fees Falcao and Cavani merit. Perhaps a deal will be done late in the day for mid-Β£40s, but you can bet it will be REALLY late in the day…
We should turn our attention to DMF and creative MF options for now, imo.
Oskar
We should turn our attention to DMF and creative MF options for now, imo … quality signings which might also convince Suarez he wants to come to the Ems.
Oskar
I would like to begin by admitting that ideally speaking I wouldn’t want Suarez in an Arsenal shirt. He is highly talented, quite mobile and has very good work ethic, but I think he will come with too much history and reputation and even relatively minor infractions would see him being suspended and denting our campaign. And also I wouldn’t want a player that has been accused of and officially sanctioned for making racist comments against a fellow professional, though as many have pointed out the evidence might have not been as incontrovertible and he may have not said those words (is he had, it is inexcusable).
But before we throw the weight of our collective judgment and disgust at the club, we may want to try to understand why Arsene would — if the reports are all accurate — try to make a bid which in all sense appears so very much against anything he stands for, for a player that seems to be very type he likes to avoid.
The only logical explanation I can come up with is that him and his team of experts — statisticians, analysts, sports-psychiatrists, scouts — have gone through a series of analysis that finds Suarez really could be a game-changing option for Arsenal (more than Higuain), more than anyone affordable in that same price range, so much so Arsene is going to take a chance on keeping his on-field shenanigans under control (thankfully he does not have any off-field behavioral history ), which he has previously done before but definitely with players more impressionable (RVP was rather prone to the seeing the red mist, and the way he had later learned to manage his thorny personality owes a lot of credit to Arsene).
Given all the obvious issues pertaining to this bid, and we would be naive to assume that Arsene and co. had underestimated the divisiveness this move would cause, if Arsene still goes ahead with it I will give him and the player the benefit of the doubt. I am sure Arsene had devised some combination of carrot-stick-and-therapy to keep the on-field behavior in check, and hopefully the generally salubrious environment of the Arsenal camp and quality leaders in Arteta and Sagna and Rosicky and TV5 in the dressing room would have a positive enough influence on him.
If and once he has been signed, I think we should all be supportive of the player and see maybe we become the club who finally made Suarez a real man and a great player (instead of a good player but a twat he is now). Unless a supporter feels strongly enough to discontinue his relationship with the club due to this, which would be sad, but if someone makes that decision from ethical principles I would understand.
Very well said Cent @ 52, my sentiments on the situation nearly word for word.
Also very well said Dr Faustus @ 54, this & Cent’s post sums up my thoughts on the matter of Suarez’ possible transfer.
I mean Dr Faustus @ 56*…
(Where did those posts come from?) :s
I can’t believe the hate this fella is getting. I don’t believe Rvp got half the grief. I personally don’t think we will pull off the signing as its out of our league.
But if he does come through I will accept it for its footballing merits and nothing else.
The guy had guts to take on the whole of OT after the Evra episode. On the football field a lot is said in the heat of the moment. For me insulting my mother would be the last straw. For others it’s different. Just because you don’t like what’s been dished out you can’t cry like that girl Evra did. You hurt the opposition by winning and then ignore the player in question.
I don’t post much at all but I’ve been an avid reader of arseblogger and goonerholic for about 4 years. I’m a fairly new gooner ( 10 years +/- ) out in San Francisco, USA. Anyway, I just wanted to say that this is a truly incredible website. Goonerholic, you are top drawer. That last post about Gooner Terry was inspirational. I more than ” felt water in the eyes. ” I cried …. Kinda hard too. The fact that Clive ( who is also pure quality ) befriended a complete stranger in a time of need makes me think I need to be a better person. I can only imagine how grateful Gooner Terry was for Clive’s support. Keep up the amazing work Holic and everybody else that contributes to this site, drinks included.
I’m deeply displeased by the possibility of Suarez joining, but:
In next seasonβs end of season hangout come and hear why I think a bid for Patrice Evra could be on the cards.
there is no need for that sort of obscenity.
Quite right Ollie. I sincerely hope that ‘holic is not flagging up his own ‘jump the shark’ moment in advance!
Essssssssssssssso! One week to beer and bacon.
Cynic @ 53
A player signing a new contract doesn’t prevent us from bidding for them.
Benteke is reportedly an Arsenal fan. He signed the contract because no one came in for him (bar maybe the LWCs). Villa had made it clear he could go for Β£25m.
I know it would be slightly unusual for a player to leave just after signing a new deal, but my guess is that if we offered Β£25m the player would want to leave and Villa would probably take the money.
I think the biggest barrier is actually the chance of Wenger bidding for a player he could have potentially got cheaper a couple of months earlier.
Still, you never know.
Hehe, Ollie and Esso,
I knew that bait would be successful π
*jumps out of keep net*
Interesting reading above. Many are talking as if its a matter of when the deal goes through, not if. I admire your confidence people. I think it is a very long way from being done. If Madrid show an interested then that is one major spanner being thrown into the works.
Re Higuain. Some people were suggesting that he is just a finisher. Well with the chances we make he should be ideal. For those who think we don’t need a goal scorer check out the figures. From memory Giroud and Poldi both got 11 in the league last season. Both brought a lot to the table but with returns like that neither can be described as prolific.
If Suarez is really the player AW wants then good luck to him. I am quite happy to back the manager. However, from previous experiences you will forgive my reservations about the whole process.
I’m so bored with this lose-lose saga. Either we get him, give the pool 45-50m to drag themselves back into the CL with, and end up with a character I may yet to change my mind about (Se… eh… thir… eh… fourth chances and all that) but really don’t like at this moment.
Or we don’t. And end up going into the season with a single player that has proved he can play striker for us.
I’m still feeling positive about the season, said before that this is a season we have to mean business, but not win the league. To get the best players in the world we need to improve gradually. Right now, talented youngsters want to come to us and not the top names. That won’t change over one transfer window. If we can move forwards this summer it will help us take a bigger step next summer.
But I just can’t shake the feeling that following a transfer saga not knowing which of the two outcomes I would dislike the most is disheartening.
Marca, the Madrid house paper, is today quoting the club as saying they will not sign a replacement for Higuain and will go with what they have up front.
It would also appear that we don’t think they’ll bid on Suarez.
Starting to think this might just happen.
Think it was naive of us to say we have X amount of cash to splash. Has been rankling since the day it was said. Really puts you in a weak spot at the negotiation table.
But hey what do i know.
iMissBergkamp, I can’t say the club were naΓ―ve to declare we had money to blow, most(if not all) our fans were crying out for the club management to tell us our plans for this transfer window, yes the club could have chosen to remain quiet on the issue but then the accusations that the club do not care about and/or are not been a truthful to the fans, the truth is that if we want the club to be accountable to us as well as be open about her strategy in the transfer window then we should be ready to bear the consequences which include, but is not limited to, the whole world and their dog knowing how much we have to spend and seeking to legally extract as much as possible from us.
I understand Cent and i believe the blame for the situation lies with us fans as well. In past windows the fans had assurances that really did not materialize into something concrete.
Quite a Catch22, appease/assure the fans but lose at negotiation table.
Aye iMB, I still trust Dicky and co to pull off something special in this window.
Cardiff have had a bit accepted for Capoue. Looks like we’re not interested after all.
I’m with Steve T (as often), in that Suarez is not a human being whom I like. His gravitational problems, history of biting and alleged racism are deeply unattractive. However he is a top class footballer and would complement our existing front line spectacularly and strengthen our challenge single-handedly.
I have taken on board the negativity of fellow Gooners which is far greater than my own and most notably the well-argued case by many as oppoed to the xenophobic tribal reflex of some (a phenomenon that I share in many ways).
The bottom line for me is that he is a top player and that Arsene believes he is a target worth splashing an astonishing wad of cash on (especially given his previous parsimoniousness). Every young man makes mistakes especially in the heat of competitive sport or under stress. Everyone deserves another chance.
Spend what it takes and sign him up Arsene. It’s “Holic’s great idea”! π
But, as with Steve T, I cannot see us consummating the growing relationship. W will fall 99p short or faff about too long and allow him to go elsewhere.
Can someone please clarify to me why Suarez is an ‘alleged’ racist. He was found guilty, on a balance of probabilities, to have racially insulted another player by an independent tribunal. Whether you agree with the strength of the evidence against him, Suarez was legally represented and you would think that LFC would have given him an interpreter if he wanted one. With this in mind the fact remains he was found guilty, received a ban and a hefty fine. He didn’t appeal. Whether he could/should have and whether he then would have won is a moot point.
The judgement stands. There’s no alleged about it.
And this is the problem. At what point, if your black and have been racially abused, are you to be believed. Are you gonna be judged as a trouble maker and thus say nothing. If you do make the accusation based on your word against someone else you can still be open to scepticism even after you have been found to have been racially abused.
Okay, Evra doesn’t think Suarez is a racist but then neither did Ashley Cole when called to act as a character referee for Terry. Like I said in previous drinks some people (people of colour included) judge racism only at its extremes. The sly, subtle, overt day to day racism is just as damaging as crazy acts even if we shrug our shoulders at it.
Regarding Evra himself my take is various legal issues rely on one persons word against another at some point. That doesn’t mean the offence the person is accused of didn’t happen. It was for Suarez legal team to pick holes in what some believe was a flimsy case. They didn’t.
@ 59 you clown. So Evra is a girl? And Suarez had guts to take on OT eh? Hmmm, and ‘things are said on a football pitch, in the heat of the moment’. Do us all a favour and no longer don HIS name and number as your moniker. You don’t deserve it.
To N7 and the right minded people on this forum calling for Suarez’s signature its dickheads like @ 59 that mean we cannot and should not sign Suarez. It only would embolden their view that a little bit of racism here and there is no big deal and the darkies should get that chip of their shoulder.
Being linked to Suarez though has been good as it’s provided me certainly with a clearer view on what peoples views on race and the clubs values are.
I can honestly say that whilst surprised I can’t say I’m shocked.
I never realised we were THAT desperate for silverware that we would do anything to get it.
Well played Guv’nor, a masterpiece of the nonsense-cobbler’s art.
I’d like, once more, to pay tribute to the drinkers at this bar for their dignified and restrained responses to the previous post. One of the finest points about it was its spontaneity. I offer some sympathy to a couple of regular drinkers who slightly spoiled the mood late on; I accept that this was done unintentionally, and it came, anyway, almost 48 hours after the bar opened.
As to Suarez; I must admit I’m torn. I would sooner he didn’t play for the club, but I’m beginning to get a little concerned at the thought of how the fans would react if he isn’t signed up. I also worry about what he might do if he did sign, but on that point at least I have confidence that there are people around the club who might be able to persuade him to behave in a civilised fashion.
I’m heartened to see, on the BBC site, that Rooney would consider coming to Arsenal if his move to Chelsea falls through. Thanks, Wayne.
Is there a decent striker available who doesn’t already play for Arsenal and wouldn’t bring with him more baggage than can comfortably be accomodated in an Emirates locker?
NB1, I understand your frustration entirely, but repeat in this place I don’t want to see personal abuse. Opposing arguments are better debated without it. I’ve never been persuaded I was wrong by someone calling me all the names under the sun.
NB1
He wasn’t found guilty of a racially aggravated offence in a court of law. Nor, I believe, would he have been had a case been brought against him.
I will respect a court ruling, because of what that institution represents. I do not nec afford the same respect to the FA’s independent commission. Particularly having read their judgement, which is a real pig’s ear.
Therefore it’s “alleged” as far as I’m concern.
The Ashley Cole comparison makes no sense to me. He was a defence witness. We’re talking about the claimant saying Suarez isn’t racist. Whole other kettle of fish.
As a lawyer, I don’t agree with your comments about various parts of the legal system depending on one person’s word against another. You are extremely unlikely to win a case on that basis without further supporting evidence, regardless of the nature of the claim.
I agree with tabs recent assessment of the whole circus. I think they both acted liked bellends, I suspect that Suarez said something that can be construed as offensive and that Evra misinterpreted the term as “nigger” and went (rightly) batshit. I suspect that the relationship between the two clubs and managers then made it impossible to untangle. This is all just my guesswork having read the report.
I think it’s dangerous to treat racism as some sort of absolute. Some terms are worse than others, some examples of abuse are more egregious than others. I don’t think you can fairly label Suarez a racist based on a single event that we will probably never fully understand the detail of and which is still hotly disputed.
I will add all the usual caveats here: I cannot abide racism. I’ve seen my own mother racially abused in the streets and I’ve thrown punches in defence of people being abused. But I also don’t agree with the term “racist” being tossed around lightly. That’s a heavy, heavy term to me.
I totally agree with you that there will be morons who will attempt to turn this into some sort of tribal bullshit campaign against Evra. I abhor that notion and those people need a slap.
Finally, please see the telegraph link I posted above. Royston Drenthe has suggested that the South American players at Real, including Higuain, used the exact same term in training that Suarez is supposed to have used. It only stopped when their team mates complained.
This whole story is not black and white (if you’ll pardon the pun) and should not be over-simplified and inflated.
As always, respect your view and happy to agree to disagree. Oh, and if Suarez were to racially abuse a player in an Arsenal shirt then I’d be outraged if he played for us again.
NB1
I have used the term “alleged racist” because I understood that although Suarez had clearly been demonstrated to have used racially offensive language to Evra, the panel had concluded that there was no evidence that he is a racist. It is some time since I read the judgment. You imply that they concluded that he is a racist. That is not my recollection. I shall re-read it.
Evra himself stated that he did not believe Suarez to be a racist. Nonetheless many people on this site and others have simply branded him a racist. I personally do not know enough about him to tell whether he is. The absence of an apology does not count in his favour but that might be the result of legal advice.
I think many people accept that there is a distinction to be made between someone uttering a racially or culturally offensive remark / using racist language and someone being “a racist”. There are people who have unintentionally used racially or culturally offensive language through cultural ignorance, generational anachronism or simple crassness who are not racists, do not have racist values and often cringe with embarrassment when challenged over their mistake.
Maybe you think that is splitting hairs and that a single use of the N word or the P word or Jock git or Welsh sheepshagger is enough to condemn someone as a racist for all time but I do not. If we were to brand everyone who has made a culturally offensive remark “a racist” and ban them from supporting the Arsenal then the ground (and this bar) would be pretty damn empty.
I also believe that everyone makes mistakes and should be given the opportunity to rectify them.
I thought you two guys had agreed to differ a couple of bars back?
Good stuff ‘H, cheers for that, and many interesting and enlightening contributions above – too many to mention individually.
Interesting times certainly. This Summer appears to get more and more bizarre (from an Arsenal point of view), the longer it goes on.
The first thing to say I think is that the debate may be a little premature. Like SteveT, I think that the deal is far from done, and we may all be crossing bridges before we get to them and indeed may never get to. That said, the debate will clearly continue until the whole saga plays itself out and, if that ends in Suarez joining Arsenal, way beyond.
I was one of those who was sceptical of the initial bid for Suarez, thinking it to be part of some wider strategy to get Madrid to the table with regard to Higuain. That thought was fuelled by two things. Firstly, how very UnArsenal the signing of Suarez would be in terms of the exorbitant cost, the massive risk and the very public nature of the pursuit. Secondly, one of the two deals that I was told on July 1st was “done” was Higuain. Shows what I know!
I did however pretty much give up on the “strategy” theory as soon as Arsenal went back to Liverpool and raised their bid from the initial Β£30m to Β£36m over a week ago. At that point it would have been folly to deny that Arsenal’s interest in Suarez was anything other than very very real, and that Suarez was the preferred target. The astronomical (and let’s face it, hilarious) bid of Β£40m and a quid of a couple of days ago merely confirmed that this is not being done as part of a strategy or a PR exercise. Arsenal badly want Suarez and they don’t care who knows it.
I don’t mind admitting that my thinking sways one way and then the other. Arseblog and Invinciblog have both written excellent and intelligent articles on Suarez and all his attendant baggage in recent days. The two articles approached the subject from opposing viewpoints and I found myself agreeing with much, and disagreeing with a little, of what both said.
I have already expressed my view that the Hearing’s findings were faulty from a legal standpoint and that the wrong decision, given all the available evidence, was reached. That view won’t change. I am however mindful that I read that report with a legal eye and that the old Scottish verdict of “Not Proven” is a very different thing from “Not Guilty”. In that respect I have very little to offer up as a Defence for Suarez to the charges laid out in Cent’s excellent post @52. One might argue about the different nuances and cultural interpretations of the Spanish word as opposed to the literal English translation, but I’m not sure it gets us too far. Even on the most sympathetic interpretation of the facts, Suarez does not come out with any credit. The best that can really be said is that he might not be as bad as the verdict of the Hearing paints him.
I have been asked a couple of questions in the last few days on Twitter and though I have tried to answer as best as I could, I was pretty reticent to. Twitter is no place for serious debates on serious issues in my view.
The first was “Would you walk away from Arsenal if Suarez joined?”
That was pretty easy. I gave Adam (a young and intelligent student who drinks in The Tollie on Matchdays) a resounding no. My reasons for so doing …
– It would take more than one dodgy player to make me walk away from a lifetime love and passion. Even if Suarez is as racist as he has been described I wouldn’t walk. Players are but passing ships, and ultimately they don’t symbolise the Club.
– I am well past the age where the players are actual heroes and role models. We watch them every week and we come to believe that we know them through their performances on the pitch. That is a pretence. A footballing performance might reveal character traits within a very limited range – strength in adversity, courage, workrate etc – But I don’t “know” them. I think it would be pretty naive to think that there haven’t been Arsenal players in the past, and won’t be Arsenal players again in the future whose political views I would find abhorrent if I was to actually come to know them.
– Would anything make me walk? Within a list of even remotely possible scenarios, I don’t think so. I would hate it if Usmanov took over as owner (a far more important position in determining the ethos of the Club than any single player in my view) and I would be a vocal critic during his tenure, but I’m kidding myself if I think I’d walk away.
The second question was a lot harder and was posed by one of our own, Harsha – “Do you want Suarez at Arsenal Tabs?”
Toughie. I answered that “broadly and not without misgivings, yes”.
Why? Well obviously firstly he’s a bloody good player who would significantly improve the squad. Secondly his signing would announce to the World (if the very public pursuit of him has not already done so) that Arsenal are back and are ready to compete with the big boys again, and thirdly, and most pertinent to the discussion above, I trust Arsene Wenger on a matter of this importance.
Whatever your view of Arsene’s managerial capabilities, surely even his biggest detractors would agree that Arsene is, in every utterance, gesture and deed, about as far as it is possible to get from being a racist. I simply don’t believe that he would countenance a move for a player if he thought that there was any chance that the player held such divisive views. Ignoring the ethical issues for one moment, on a purely practical level how would he justify such a decision to Sagna, Gibbs, Ox, Theo?
Given the above, and the purely circumstantial evidence of Suarez’ mixed race background and the support that was extended to him willingly by Liverpool’s black players ( a support that was noticeable by its absence in the John Terry case), I’m prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, though I respect the views of those that have come to a different conclusion.
Ultimately it is a complex matter and I don’t think it can be rationalised by reference to easy soundbites such as “I don’t care if he’s a racist if he scores 30 goals” on the one hand and “He’s definitely a racist scumbag and I don’t want him anywhere near our Club” on the other.
My two bobs worth.
Oh shit sorry ‘H π
Oh I thought I’d left the italics on – bit baffled now.
(Edit – the Lord moves in mysterious ways!)
Best two bobs worth I have had since I could get 4 Mars Bars for a florin, mate. Love it.
As tabs alludes to, also worth noting that I don’t believe that anyone who has ever actually met Suarez has suggested (via word or deed) that he’s a racist.
That label is being exclusively applied on the Internet.
This link from SS may just explain the thinking behind going for Suarez and dropping interest in Higuain, not to mention the possibility that they got a heads up that he was interested in coming and Real Madrid had other fish to fry.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11096/8839673/suarez-solution?
I have been asked a couple of questions in the last few days on Twitter
Fuck me, tabs is now a global celebrity with his own Q&A sessions on Twitter, wow! π
I can understand you’d have struggled to post this whole post on Twitter, but I enjoyed reading it.
Now, you forgot to close the italics, mate!
I see the italics problem has been swiftly rectified…
Brilliant post N7.
Haha at the edit @85 π
Ollie π π π Bugger orf!
Cheers Bath.
Bad timing. It appears that it all kicked off between starting that post and posting. That is a shame.
@92 I have always found it’s best to arrive late to a ruck. π
Yeh probably for the best Bath π
Get a couple of pints in and discuss what we would have done if only we’d arrived just a tad earlier π
Absolutely, tabs. Much the best strategy. Or even take the role of peacemaker and get your pint bought for you by a grateful landlord/pugilist.
Blogs absolutely spot re both Higuain and the Suarez deal.
The fact that Higuain could make his debut in the emirates cup against us does not sit well with me.
*dinks the ball into the area with backspin*
Lurks
Give a dog a bad name….
Well in Oliva
Thanks bath. Everyone well?
And scores again!
Don’t try this at home, it’s natural talent.
COuple of “drinks” gone missing? Probably for the best. Well in, Lurky.
Don’t get too excited Gooners, but there are rumours knocking around that for whatever reason Gonzalo Higuain’s presentation at Napoli, scheduled for this evening, has been cancelled. Not the deal, but the presentation, and we know little more at present.
heh
heh, well played, lurky, the difficult art of scoring a goal, seeing it chalked off, but still scoring again shortly after, while avoiding the self-assist! This might be the best finish ever!
Bath @95 – Haha, already displaying a clear ability to think clearly in a crisis. “Keep pouring Landlord” π
Lurky – Haha, and well in! Again!
NB1,
As another legal head, and to add very briefly to the excellent and founded opinions of both NB7 and Tabs in the previous threads in the hope of providing a consolidated and rational viewpoint on this:
As bath alluded to, and I shall quote directly from the conclusion of the report:
βThe Charge against Mr Suarez was that he used insulting words which included a reference to Mr Evra’s colour. We have found that Charge proved on the evidence and arguments put before us. The FA made clear that it did not contend that Mr Suarez acted as he did because he is a racist. Mr Evra said in his evidence that he did not think Mr Suarez is a racist. Mr Suarez said in evidence that he will not use the word βnegroβ on a football pitch in England in the future, and we believe that is his genuine and firm intentionβ.
Therefore the conclusion was not that Suarez is a racist but that he used insulting words, including some reference to Mr Evraβs colour.
Saying someone is a racist is a very very serious accusation.
The standard and burden of proof, laid down by the commission, falls a long way short, (to say the least) to determine such an charge. And in this context, let us be absolutely clear about the rule which was broken:
βRule E3, with the sub-heading “General Behaviour”, provides as follows:
“(1) A Participant shallβ¦.. not act in any manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any one, or a combination of, violent conduct,β¦β¦. abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour.
(2) In the event of any breach of Rule E3(1) including a reference to any one or more of a person’s ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, faith, gender,β
Now does breaking this rule, during a heated exchange in a football match, make somebody a racist?
How the FA managed to come to that conclusion from either an objective, or a subjective perspective is very sketchy. The only person who really knows what he meant, was Suarez himself. So trying to infer connotations, make determinations or to βjudge a personβs credibilityβ based, amongst other things, on a persons βdemeanourβ at the time is highly dubious and circumspect to say the least.
Of course, Suarez does not come out of the incident smelling of roses. There can be no doubt, that he said something that really upset Evra.
You can say heβs a biter, (a case which was obviously beyond dispute and one which he is paying a very hefty price for), you can say that he sometimes cheats (hand ball, or diving – an allegation that can be made against a myriad of players primarily down to the lack of administration by the FA) but you cannot, imo, conclude that Suarez is a racist by any stretch of logic or reason. Indeed, considering that his grandfather was black and that he was raised in a multiethnic environment would only serve to dilute that allegation even more.
Steve,
I cannot understand the thinking that we should have bought Higuain.
Higuain was our first option.
We seriously tried to buy him. RM made a deal and then tried to screw us.
I find it amazing that people think Wenger should just have accepted to what has transpired as a 50% increase in the asking price for Higuain by RM, after we had agreed a deal and terms with the player?
Wenger did what any reasonable person would have done, washed his hands and walked away..!
Madrid made a deal????? I am guessing that means there is something signed and legally binding somewhere then??? There was no deal. There might have been a few chats over the phone or a glass of wine but my guess is that’s all there was. If we have not thought to draw up some legally binding document then more fool us.
Where do you get the 50% price rise????
The fact is that for whatever reason we did not move fast enough, if we wanted the player that is. Napoli came in with a bigger offer and they accepted. I don’t see that they or Madrid have done much wrong. The fact that we seem to have put all our eggs in one basket for someone like Suarez I find very worrying.
Steve T
I think the way it’s been reported is that we had agreed in principle a Β£22m fee with Madrid. Then they asked to wait for Ancelotti to arrive. Then the price suddenly jacked up to over Β£30m, and we walked.
I’m not sure it’s the case that we didn’t move fast enough. We apparently cooled on Higuain a couple of weeks ago.
My suspicion is that the price was inflated by either the Cavani deal (which has had much the same effect on Suarez) or fresh interest from Napoli with the Cavani funds.
I suspect we also somehow became aware that Madrid were less likely to move for Suarez than had been though, and the argument then became: “if we’re going to spend Β£32m on Higuain, then why not bung on an extra Β£10m and go for Suarez”. Exactly the kind of thinking we’ve all called for in recent years, ironically.
Obviously all of the above is based on what’s been reported, but none of us really has a clue what’s really gone on.
I do think that, if we leave the baggage aside, Suarez is a better player than Higuain. I can also understand why we would walk away after the price suddenly rose. Imagine buying a house: you agree a fee in principle and while you’re sorting the paperwork it suddenly vaults by almost 50%. You’d walk, right?
I guess the shame is that we weren’t simply quoted Β£32m to start with, as I suspect the deal might have been done weeks ago.
Tabs @83 – Excellent Sir.
Joe @ 107 – Exactly
N7 @ 110 – The house analogy was right on the money. I was about to use a car analogy before reading your post.
I suspect that Real Madrid played a dirty game and it was just the principle of the situation that made Arsenal walk away. They tried to “mug” us.
N7. I don’t think we agreed any fee. There might have been casual conversation and even meetings. I don’t consider anything agreed until something is signed. Football is a business. Why would they sell to us for a lot less than another club was offering if there was no “agreement” in place ? If AW decided that he did not want him anymore then I will go with his judgement. At the moment at least , I am not convinced.
@111. I rate Suarez massively as a player. I just have massive reservations about his character and as a man. There has to come a time when the baggage outweighs the value as a player. Just check out everyone’s feelings towards him last season, especially before and after the Liverpool game. You may find that most were quite uncomplimentary in their views.
Who would I prefer? I would rather pay Β£32 million for Higuain than Β£50 million for Suarez. That said, I am still far from convinced that we will do the deal anyway.
As I said earlier, blogs has it spot on for me.
Real and Perez are cunts, nothing new. Sorry to be so summary.
Thanks for the rational post though, Joe, there’s very little rationality in all I have read on transfers recently, while everything is based on very little in terms of known fact.
You lot are also doing a great job and making me slowly accept the Suarez idea, but I still fear his general cuntitude will come back to bite us on many levels.
It’s not like the referees are doing us any favours to start with either π
Who would I prefer? I would rather pay Β£32 million for Higuain than Β£50 million for Suarez. That said, I am still far from convinced that we will do the deal anyway.
I’m totally with that too, for the reasons you said, Steve T.
According to ” Caught Offside ” Arsenal have sealed Bernard from Athletico in Brazil. Says we will loan him back until January. Take that for what it’s worth …..
Ollie your cuntitudometer is clearly working well. Even without Maureen, the innate character stays true to form at Real. Sadly this may also be true of Suarez even under the guidance of AW, if by some chance the deal actually happens (which I don’t expect.
Who would I prefer? Suarez, by a country mile (and Β£15m + Β£1).
My take on Higuain saga.
Higuain was is not satisfied with his paycheck at Real. Higuain wants more money. Higuain is not happy. Real wants to offload the player who is not happy.
Juventus offer 19 mil and give Higuain the paycheck he wants. Real want more money. Juventus give 21 mil in five instalments. Not a penny more. Real want straight cash.
Arsenal want to buy Higuain. Arsenal have straight cash. Arsenal offer 18 mill for Higuain and want to give him the paycheck he wants. Higuain wants Arsenal because they give him the paycheck he wants. Real wants more money. Arsenal offer 21 mill. cash. Real want more money. Arsenal offer 23 mill cash. Real want more money but will accept that 23 million. Arsenal are satisfied. Higuain is satisfied. All the ITK’s and journalist are satisfied. Higuain is Arsenal player.
Meanwhile..
Napoli wants to sell Cavani for crazy money. Napoli are sure they wold get crazy money for Cavani from PSG. Napoli just do not know how much crazy money they’ll get. Napoli understands the 23 mill offer from Arsenal for Higuain. Napoli calls Real. Napoli tells Real: We will get crazy money for Cavani. We just don’t know how much crazy money. If you can wait a little for PSG to pay us the crazy money, we will buy Higuain for crazy money. Real says: DEAL. We want crazy money for Higuain now. Can you pay crazy money Arsenal?
Arsenal says: Yes, we want to pay crazy money, but not to you fycking scumbag Perez. Thank you and fyck you.
Napoli buys Higuain for crazy money.
Arsenal pays crazy money for someone else.
@77 I will choose any moniker I like. You can go to bed and cry on it if you wish.
Didn’t read anything you wrote that convinced me against signing the bitey one.
FA.
@117Duttlenheim
Caught Offside?!?! I was waiting for them to certificate the Bernard to Arsenal story. You can bet all of your money to Bernard to Porto. It is safe now.
@121 … It says ” EXCLUSIVE ” so it must be true π
Post hoc rationalisation is a wonderful thing.
If you believe that Wenger is a genius and that everything he touches turns to gold, you can quite easily find justification for that in Arsenal’s behaviour during this transfer window.
If you believe that Wenger is an idiot who refuses to do obviously sensible things for no discernible reason, you can easily find justification for that in Arsenal’s behaviour during this transfer window.
What will we do when the window closes and we only have actual, real, football to discuss?
COYG
Oxon @ 123
Very, very true.
Why have you changed your name, by the way?
Cannot wait for the season to start again. Hopefully we’ll all be there feeling a bit of optimism on opening day.
….and looking forward to seeing how well our new top, top players fit into our team and add creativity, defensive solidity and predatory goal scoring.
N7 – I thought I could manage something a little more interesting than a geographically-based name – no offence meant π – and, after reading many drinks through the summer and earlier, and as a counterbalance to Cynic, I thought Pangloss seemed to fit.
Good stuff Oxon.
I should probably update mine at some stage – have (sadly) moved away from N7 since I started posting here. The heart is still there though. And I’ve not gone too far.
Lurky @119 (if no more drinks are removed!)
Sounds about right. If that was the right or the wrong decision, only time will tell. But sure sounds like that might be what transpired, down to a tee.
Ah, still quite chilled out about everything. It’s summer, we’ve got money, we’ve got quite a good team, we will strengthen. If we get world class players this transfer window or the next, ah, we’ll see. As I’ve said numerous times already, I’m not sure it’s easy for us to lure world class players to us at the moment, even if we can get clubs to sell.
Small steps, everyone. We’ve slid down into this problem over a period of many seasons, it might take a good strengthening of decent players this summer to convince the world class players to come in a later window.
Que sera, sera, and all that. The only thing I’m certain of is that we will bring bodies in. At this moment in time, having the reputation we’ve got, I wouldn’t mind us getting a player if Girouds class in. Will score us close to 20, and be able to fill in when Giroud is injured. We’ve got a good foundation, let’s get some strength in depth now, and let’s continue to run this club with the long view in mind. This is not a make or break summer, but sure is a “might break”-summer. Small improvements will go a long way to winning a couple of titles within three-four seasons.
This is not to say that I don’t want us to get world class players in, but if it’s hard to do that at the moment, that’s just the way it goes (and yeah, I know Napoli got the Higgster, being a “smaller club” and what not, not saying it’s quite as clear cut as this, but we must surely all agree that we don’t have the magnetic power of Bayern even if we are getting close to having their economy. Saying that we do surely must be because we are Arsenal supporters and think more highly of our club than random world class player).
There.
Now, I’ve said it enough, methinks.
@ pangloss 82 your right we did agree to disagree. I couldn’t help myself. I do feel compelled to respond again mind but I can see we will continue in circles. Whilst I still disagree with several of N7 points I respect his opinion on the matter.
@ Joe 106 if he has indeed broken rule E3 and within this context used race or ethnic origin to carry out that insult then what other conclusion do you draw? I can only speak for me but if I’m in a heated debate with someone and my skin colour or ethnicity comes into the exchange as an insult then I would feel inclined that the person is being racist. I don’t how else to call it.
Regarding the FA what were they meant to do. They had to charge him if they felt there was a case to answer. They gave the evidence to an independent body and both parties agreed to this process. Once the judgement was made they could hardly then review the case themselves and disagree with the independent bodies conclusion. They handed out a fine and ban accordingly.
I have drawn my conclusions as to where that places the man in question. Right or wrong I stand by that.
I will draw a line under this debate from my point of view as I think its clear what that view is.
Roll on the first day of the season.
Blimey its this heated and he hasnt even signed yet, imagine what it will be like if he does put pen to paper-
Pros, Shit hot footballer, Pace, Great Movement, Works his bollocks off, Does the unexpected (In a good way),And would greatly improve our side,
Cons, Pretty obvious and we all know them, I Think we would also need to take into account the Mass Ranks of Liverpool supporting jounalists that would be hell bent on bringing him down not that he needs much help in that department either!,
Very very tricky, be just like Arsenal to fuck up countless deals that the fanbase wanted Mata, Higuain etc but manage to sign the one that will cause the most controversy π Good luck Arsene !!
I salute your change of name, Oxon/Pangloss. I have long felt that if there was one thing missing in this bar it was a professor of metaphysico-theologo-cosmonigology. Now you have made us complete.
Greetings from NZ “Holic and fellow drinkers.
Re Saurez : I wonder how our current crop of black,or mixed race players feel about the potential arrival of a proven racist to the club.
Hardly condusive to squad harmony is it?
Frankly, I consider Saurez an unmitigated (insert hateful invective of choice) and would be aghast if we signed him,despite his obvious talents.
Still, it would be nice if we signed someone………..
Tevez went for comparative peanuts, Benteke wanted Arsenal, Higuain was a perfect fit.
I may be thicker than a whale omlette but it seems to me we have missed not one,but several boats.
The joys of an Arsenal Allegiance!
Good Evening All, Holic, think it is fair to say you have been absolved in the matter of Mr Suarez π Personally, I feel guilty myself, saying how I admired his drive, this was just seconds before he decided to snack on a Manu player π . Oh dear … Some great arguments, both pro and con, presented here. Tabs, you alluded to our players and that to me, is key. Seriously folks, if we dig deep enough on anyone, we might find ourselves very much alone at the end of the day. Skeletons in the closet. The important thing is when you do something wrong, you own up to it and try your darnest, never to do it again. Whether we sign Suarez or not, this is a lesson for us all. A little kindness goes along way, with a touch of humility, for good measure π
Does Suarez still have a 6 match ban if he signs for a club in, say, central Spain?
8ball, as far as I know, his ban remains no matter the league.
The ban remains, but doesn’t apply to European football.
He could, for example, play for us in the CL qualifiers if signed early enough.
Cardiff agree Β£8.6m with Toulouse for midfielder Etienne Capoue.
There goes out beloved Capoue. Sometimes I struggle to find a logic in Arsene’s decisions. Capoue would be a perfect fit for us, in terms of what we need position wise, in terms of the price, in terms of quality.
My only explanation of letting Capoue go to CARDIFF for that price, is that there is bigger fish to fry. I can only hope that I am right.
Lurky, Capoue, Fellaini, Bender, schneirderlein of Southampton or Lars Bender and Gustavo, who do you prefer in descending order?
This is blinding stuff fellow drinkers! What a passionate and erudite debate. I stated my view on Suarez at the start of these drinks and now I am semi- warming to the idea of him joining us because it will wind up almost everybody. The decider for me was the weasel Aldridge getting very upset. Did he not leave Oxford ( Pangloss)for a bigger club with more ambition? Suarez is merely doing the same. Do you realise we are upsetting all our rivals because he is a player who could seriously hurt them, LWCs because this confirms we are out of their league, all the tabloid press and radio who have been on Wenger’s back for yonks about not signing anybody and particularly loathsome ex- Liverpool players like Hansen, Whelan,Houghton and Lawrenson who still maintain the fiction that Liverpool is a contender. As we all know one of the joys of football is cocking a snook at as many people as possible at one time. In that respect this bid is a belter. As a previous drinker said( I think it was Tabs) there is no way on earth that Wenger can be called a racist nor would he ignore the issues caused by the Evra fall- out but he obviously believes he can deal with them.
As for other activity the most interesting thing I have heard is that we are keeping our powder dry on a defensive midfielder just in case Cesc becomes available. This sounds slightly fanciful to me because we are not apparently attempting to sign him and if he did join I think we might suddenly have to contemplate the departure of Santi Cazorla,simply because if Bernard joins us well we might have too many talented but tiny midfield geniuses. There is only limited room for Munchkins in the Premier League.
If the Bernard loan back stories are true we face the prospect of paying out close to Β£70 million and finding we are unable to use any of this talent in the qualifying round for the Champions League. If we are unsuccessful and dropped into the Europa League might this trigger a buy- out clause in Suarez’s contract which might enable someone to buy him before he has even played for us?This is driving us all a bit mad and I am relieved to see Nursie coming down the corridor with my medicine
TTG te Suarez ban applies only to domestic matches. If signed in time he can play in the ECL qualifiers. Frankly I would pay Β£50m now and seal the deal and, as you say, piss a lot of wankers off.
Now this has to be the most hilarious (and by that I mean most extremely unlikely to be true) rumour of the summer:
http://sillyseason.com/football/la-liga/real-madrid/articles/boom-higuain-deal-takes-turn
But it is my birthday today so if I can wish for a late present, may I ask for us to get Higuain despite everything and not buy Suarez?
Anyway.
Loads of really intelligent and well-thought posts, particularly from N7, NB1 and tabs. I am too tired to develop my thoughts on the subject right now but I just want to say that I very much appreciate following the calm and measured debate being held here. Disagreeing without losing our heads has always been a strength of this bar.
TTG
I’m enjoying the press doing backflips trying to find a way to square the events of this week with their slating of the manager over the past 8 years.
Particularly enjoyed the bellend from the Independent writing an article slagging off Arsene for “betraying his ethos” by spending big. It took about an hour for people to track down an article written by the same genius in February stating that Wenger must either spend big or resign. WHAT a cock.
I find it mind boggling that we appear to be about to take more criticism for spending money we have earned and saved than City have encountered for spunking the best part of a billion quid’s worth of an Arab state’s mineral wealth up the wall
The agenda of some quarters of the press is utterly transparent and – you’re totally right – this Suarez bid has really upset them.
Good. More of the same, please.
Just wait until we bloody win something. There’ll be tears on Fleet Street (or wherever the hacks are based these days).
Happy birthday, Lars. Just this once, the bar will open our wallet for you to mark the occasion. But just one drink, mind you, or we’ll end up splashing the cash like Arsenal. Oh…
lars, happy birthday from one celebrant to another (mine was yesterday)! wouldn’t that be just a wonderful present if even the napoli deal was a figment, and we were in fact still in for him?
great stuff on suarez, folks, especially compared to the screaming battles coming from other quarters. i don’t want him, but if the boss wants him, then i trust the boss’s knowledge and decision-making power above my own in this situation. the conflict i’d feel seeing him in the red and white i’ll be glad to deal with, especially if he were to help us win things. something along the line of “yeah, he’s a cnut, but he’s our cnut” springs to mind, even though being our cnut doesn’t absolve him of his racist tendencies.
Aw Lars, how could I forget your birthday, especially since it co-incides with Miss Feelgood, who turned 18 today π―
Many happy returns – hope to see you at The grove on 17th π
Lars and Scruz, Happy Birthday fellas ! π π
Happy Birthday Lars!!!!
Now, are you SURE you don’t want Suarez for your birthday? Obviously I have read all the comments above and absolutely respect other drinkers’ thoughtful and sincerely held opinions. But I have to say I did rather allow myself to warm to him after I saw this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeihatAEk0g
And let’s face it, advertising is how I form my opinions about everything. Because the transparency of it all is a whole lot more compelling and genuine than a bunch of hacks with their own agendas π
Cent, glad you asked
I prefer Fellaini mostly because of his PL experience and the availability to play across the midfield, as a second forward, and even as a the central defender, why not. Great in defense, great in offense, great in set pieces, tackles, creating chances, winning duels, scoring goals. After all we all know what player he is. He would be expensive of course.
Gustavo is a good option if we can’t get Fellaini. Typical defensive minded player, reliable, not error prone, we don’t have similar in the squad. Reminds me of Gilberto a lot. Lacks creativity though. If he wants to leave Bayern, 12-15 millions would be enough I think. Good price.
Arsene was full of praise for Schneirderlein as far as I remember. He pretty much reminds me of Busquets. Haven’t seen enough of him to be my preferred choice, but I trust Arsene’s opinion. Not that cheap as someone would thought, but everything over 10 mil would be enough.
Capoue was out of form this season and that is maybe the reason we are not after him anymore. But, he has everything we need in a large pack and I think it was worth a gamble to buy him and get his form back. Because the guy is talented and young. Cheapest option, but gone with a wind.
Haven’t watched Bender a lot to be honest. Steve Rowley’s favorite at that position. The problem is that he is a typical DM, type of player Arsene himself said that has no part in modern football. Maybe I am wrong on this one.
Oops happy belated birthday scruz π And Miss F too!
And a very Happy Birthday to Ms. Feelgood, too π
And happy birthday Lars and Scruz. Lions as myself. Many happy returns.
Very many happy ones to my favourite Swede (apart from Freddie!) and the hitherto unknown Miss F.
Doctor Feelgood had a daughter at about fifteen??? Or the bugger is older than he looks π
Thanks all! (and a belated “right back at ya” to scruz!)
zico, won’t be at the Grove on the 17th unfortunately. I have to be at the Arsenal Sweden AGM that day so it is not possible to travel for that one. My first trip over will almost certainly be the Stoke match in September.
snowy: agree, unlike hacks advertisers never have an agen… Uhmm, hang on… π
Happy birthday Lars, Scruz and Miss Feelgood. Drinks on the bar. Sarsparilla for Miss Feelgood.
Great link Snowy. It’s always endearing to see a man who can take a poke at himself. The baggage is still there. Some of our own will take an age to come round to him (if ever). But if we sign him, we will piss a lot of people off and become challengers again – no question.
Sign him NOW!
Happy birthday, Lars, Scruz and little miss Feelgood. Slainte.
Bath
Thanks for the info Re Suarez’s ban. I was unsure on this. He can play for us if we manage to sign for him in time then.
N7
Absolutely with you re the Independent article. Wenger is causing a lot of journos ( if they can be called that) to spout a new line and they don’t know quite what to make of it all ( neither of course do we). I will be interested to see Gary Neville’s views . After the Newcastle game he made some very constructive points and his suggestion that the improvement of our financial position was a considerable achievement was largely ignored. An Arsenal team with no major departures and the arrival of three top- class players really might altervthe balance of power- and it would be OUR money that we had done it with!
Surely that Higuain article is a wind- up?
A very Happy Birthday to Lars, Scruz, and Ms F. For once Lars you can put that wallet away!
The Higuain deal to Napoli has stalled? Back in the game as an ITK !! π
Snowy @146 – Haha, great vid and wise words π
N7 @141 – Retweeted those two Independent articles this evening. The shamefaced hypocrisy of the Press is at times staggering even by their standards. As Esso immediately remarked;
“James Lawton is a fat cunt. This has been known since at least the dawn of time.”
Can’t argue with that!
Joe, Ttg – Great stuff.
Thanks for responding Lurky, I’d go with Bender(he’s good going forward too)
Fellaini
Schneirderlein
Gustavo
Capoue.
Heh @ 152 and 153 π
I hope that my 25 years of dealing with hacks that have agendas, but who are (rarely) open about those agendas is not manifesting itself as cynicism or anything….
I do (not so) secretly love the game of building up the next superhero/pantomime villain as much as the next PR.
And the Suarez one does look like it will run and run. And therefore sell papers/get website hits etc etc etc. Until a deal (or not) is done π
Happy Birthday Lars, and Miss F. Many happy belated returns to Scruz. Not sure about this idea of opening the joint wallet for Lars, mind. Seems to call into question all we hold dear. Next thing we’ll be splashing cash about like there’s no … hang on, bad metaphor. Next thing we’ll be trying to buy Suarez… damn that’s not right either.
Ms F says thanks to all you “crazy Arse fans” – stereotypes, obviously π
And HBD to scruz π
Always a pleasure Cent, I guess Bender is as good as he is valued on the market.
I have received an e-mail from REDaction about a boat trip to the Cottage. We did discuss a Holics boat trip a few weeks ago. Any progress on that coming about?
Yes Lurky, and he has the potential to becoe even better.
Belated happy returns, SCG, and happy returns to Miss F, who has clearly already been introduced to Wolfie.
Got to run, but I wonder what influence Pep has on his brother, since he is Suarez’s agent. Would Pep really want Arsenal strengthened ? What with Champs League. Just another twist ! ; ) Good nite everyone. π 1
cheers, all for the birthday wishes. a keg of arrogant bastard is on the handpull, cellar temperature, my treat. and a supply of shandies for the lovely miss f. i hope it makes everyone feelgood!
it appears now that the corporal is the handsome english bastard: http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/arsenal-transfer-news-olivier-giroud-2089070
Happy Birthdays Lars, scruz, Miss F. π
I don’t know if I can afford to drink here any more – how many lawyers drink in this bar, exactly ?
When the bill arrives for all these elongated interpretations, Lars bar tab is going to look positively microscopic.
Joking aside, some excellent posts above from Tabs, N7 and Joe.
No offence to anyone on the other side of the argument but I’m going with their conclusions and trusting that Arsene Wenger is satisfied that he is not going to plant a racist bang in the middle of what appears to be a nicely unified dressing room.
Off to check out your vid, snowy.
Good question bath. As it is between opening day and LWC’s, two must-attend homes, I will not make Fulham, sadly.
Suggest any that are around for an 8.45 am embarcation (kick-off is lunchtime) organise with the Red Action lads and lasses.
Shame everything conspired against it. It will be a great day.
Ned @164 – We share the same dress sense, and often swap fashion tips.
Trev – Heh π
Well done Daily Mirror !
Clearly identifying a picture of Carl Jenkinson as Olivier Giroud. Top class.
Well spotted Scruz, Epic fail by John Cross and his cohorts.
By the way, if people are civil, quite happy for you to disagree on Suarez. That is the nature of the beast.
In May I thought he would make us a better team, but now am persuaded by those who have been offended by his behaviour, and the likelihood of officials and journos to turn on him even more, that he would probably be a liability.
If he signs you all know I pray to be proven wrong…
Aha!
Holic says, “I pray we sign Suarez”.
See. This journalism malarkey is easy! π
Heh at Trev’s new career. I can see him as punning headline writer at the Daily Fail in no time – tabs’ job security is in jepoardy (or however you spell it – sub ed anywhere?).
@136 … Been reported Capoue won’t negotiate with Cardiff on personal terms. No interest ….
Daily Fail:
“Arsenal in Suarez Race – Oops!”
Capoue is xenophobic.
What is wrong with Wales?
Probably just a miner problem. π
I’m not pointing bones but I’d be surprised if a certain amount of racism didn’t already exist in our dressing sheds. Because, sadly, racism to varying degrees is widespread everywhere (not just in football) and probably more so in parts of Europe than UK. And it also works both ways of course.
As distasteful as we might find it the fact should be recognised as it isn’t going to go away just because we want it to. Most people manage to control their tongues (and tweets). Some do not, or cannot, and simply learn the hard way. Hopefully Suarez has learned his and will be out to prove his footballing prowess ahead of his abusive skills.
Given the punishments I believe it’s rare for footballers to repeat the offence, and if AW believes Suarez is controllable that’s okay with me.
Oskar
Re: Trev @179: Very quick. π
Happy birthdays to all the celebrants. Given a few virtual time and space twists the party could be this evening on a boat trip to Fulham. And what are they smoking at Emirates, anyway? π
It’s amazing what you can do when you quit your job. After hours upon hours of articles, videos, etc., I’m talking myself into this Suarez thing.
First off, let’s start with Higuain. AW is right to stay away. He’s effective but if you look at his strike rate, its a mixed bag. He’s good with Argentina, 20 in 32, but he’s next to Messi which surely helps. His league rate is good, 120 in 225 with 55 assists, but 190 of those matches are next to Ronaldo. His record in cups and in Europe is absolutely shocking, 10 in 54 with 4 assists in Europe and 4 in 21 in domestic cups. For some perspective in Europe … Theo 11 in 48, Bendtner 9 in 31, Chamakh …. CHAMAKH even has scored 19 in 50 European matches in his career. Point is Higuain needs help. I’ve watched a load of his goals today and many are predatory types or clean ups from Ronaldo shots. Very few something out of nothing types. I’m not so certain Higuain in his first year in English football is better than Giroud in his second season. They are very similar.
Suarez has by far the best strike rate of anybody ( 190 in 327 for club, 35 in 68 for country )we are after, linked to or have already. It’s also much better than RVP’s if you are wondering why we didn’t just keep RVP. His record in the pressure matches like cup ties and Europe is awesome. 19 in 21 Domestic cup ties and 21 in 45 with 10 assists in Europe. He’s light years ahead of Higuain skill wise. In short, he is a match winner that can be the difference between dropping points at home to Sunderland like we did last season or not. ( Waiting for somebody to point out Suarez won’t be available the opening match … Lol ) He also works very hard, tracks back, agitates, is EPL tested and IMPORTANTLY has never suffered a serious injury.
So the obvious problem is the fact that Suarez is an absolute dick on the pitch. Off the pitch he seems a decent bloke. Childhood sweetheart wife ( decent looking but no runway model ) baby, plenty of pictures all over google looking like a happy family. We have had plenty of players with problems off the pitch. Our last captain was accused of rape. Another former captain drink drove at over 4 times the legal limit, got imprisoned, and continued drinking anyway. If you want to tell me biting some guy on the arm or EVEN making a racist remark in the heat of a huge rivalry match is worse than getting on the road when you are plastered, crashing your car, being imprisoned and not learning your lesson then I don’t know what to say. Even Jack got arrested for spitting in the cab driver’s face. Of course Jack was right cause the cabbie was a Spud. π Point is we have supported players thru plenty of crap just not quite this kind of on field crap. This is where my unwavering faith in Arsene Wenger comes into play. He’s dealt with some petulant characters … Paddy, Mad Lens, RVP, Adebayor … and had success. If he is willing to shatter our transfer record by nearly 3 times and our wage record by 40K a week then he must feel pretty confident he can handle the situation. Throw in the fact Suarez isn’t available in EPL until October and I’m convinced that AW thinks he’s the difference.
So what are the chances this is happening? I say 100%. Pere Guardiola is Suarez’ agent. He also represents a couple young gunners, Bellerin and Jon Toral. Bellerin just signed a new contract first week this month so we have been dealing with Guardiola already. I imagine Suarez name came up more than once. Madrid? Guardiola is his agent. Just a gut feeling Pep’s brother isn’t a huge Madrid supporter.
Feel free to tear me apart but I’ve made my peace. Thanks for reading.
We should spare a thought for poor little Cescy this morning, it must have been extremely traumatic for him to discover what he had been informed was Barca DNA is in fact Salford DNA.
Morning all. Happy birthday birthday people. Lars, that’s on hell of a Celebration fella. I’m proud of you.
I’ve spent some time looking back over previous blogs and drinks. I was also remembering all of the posts re Suarez when we have played Liverpool and after the biting incident. It’s very interesting to see how opinions have changed. Apparently a man with a goal record of 1 in 2 and who keeps Aguero out of the national team is now average. Where as Suarez is head and shoulders above and bordering on being a saint????
I will be happy if we sign Suarez, but unlike some I think the deal is a long way off. That said, I never envisaged us spending 50 million on a player that neither of my two would want on the back of their shirt??? Liverpool hold all the aces and unless we stump up 50 million then it could be one long stalemate.
The season starts in 3 weeks and from my seat I think we are short in more than one position. Best the board get off their arses and wake up. Time is running out for Ivan and his merry men.
Duttlenheim
Very interesting post and your logic appears spot- on to me. I would still believe Higuain could succeed with us with the number if chances we create but the acclimatisation to the EPL would be the snag.
I also agree re the Adams comparison. In 1990 we felt he had been comparatively heavily treated when looking at other similar cases but as a magistrate I am very supportive of not drinking and driving and I don’t know any of my personal circle who aren’t.
I also hope we get Suarez quickly because it seems to be distracting attention from other areas we need to look at. I suspect deals are potentially in place but are in limbo pending the outcome of Suarez and the final price tag. Plus the Times say that Real are NOT out of the race and have informed Guardiola that he is still an option for them. We place too much emphasis on the way they manipulate Marca like United manipulate the Daily Mail with their story about him wanting to go to United
Sorry by him in the last line I meant Cesc!
@thundertinygooner, thanks for reading the post and your kind words. On Cesc, not quite sure what to make yet. Is he going to flirt with United cause he knows AW has first refusal so it’s really a ” I want to go home ” or does he really want United? Can’t imagine Moyes is floating his boat. SAF maybe but Moyes? But it’s pretty clear he isn’t 100% settled in Barca. He has no connection to the new manager at Barca like he did with Pep. His new baby is in London. We have #4 available in our squad. SORT IT ARSENE !!!!!
Duttlenheim – agree with a lot of that, and particularly re: drink driving. We have to be able to separate someone acting like a tit on a football pitch from actual real world shit that could result in someone being seriously hurt, or even killed.
That’s not to say that all the Suarez stuff isn’t an issue, just that I don’t understand people acting as if he’s some kind of monster the likes of which English football has never seen before.
Steve T – for what it’s worth, my view on Suarez has not changed a single iota as a result of our bidding for him. Not sure I ever raised it on here, but I’ve had many, many discussions with friends in which I’ve argued he gets a rough ride off the press. I also felt at the time of the Ivanovic bite that a mountain was being made of a molehill – I would far rather someone lightly bit my arm than attempted to break my leg, or swung an elbow at me.
I’m sure there’s some revisionism going on out there (and there will be plenty more to come if he signs, no doubt), but don’t assume that everyone is at it.
Will be interested to see how much power Liverpool really have here. From where I’m sat, far from holding “all the aces” what they actually hold is a disgruntled star player who seems to be making it fairly clear he wants to go to us.
Rodgers comments being quoted this morning (“why would he go to Arsenal/we’re building something here/not many people get to play in front of 80,000 people in pre-season friendlies”) do not suggest to me a man speaking from a position of strength. Fingers crossed.
Re: Cesc, I sense some combination of an agent improving his player’s leverage at his current club, and perhaps a smokescreen for a Manc Bale bid.
Even if I’m wrong, I cannot imagine Arsene letting him go play for the scum. I think it would cause massive problems if he were to do so.
Happy Birthday Lars! (though the above make me think I’m a day late)
And a happy one to scruz and miss F then.
Lars: I have to be at the Arsenal Sweden AGM that day
Really? What sort of fucked up supporters association has an AGM on the day of the first day of the season thus preventing its members to attend the game? Seems mental to me.
baff, given kick-off time, I think boat trip looks ridiculously too early.
I’m not working on the Friday so probably could travel that day, mind.
First off Happy Birthday and belated returns to Lars et al.
On to the matter at hand. Reading Arseblog you can get a definitive list of all the outs this summer (for the ins you don’t need a list…), and it’s admirable that we’re clearing the decks, but I’m starting to squirm in my seat here. Quoting a source from earlier in these drinks, time really is running out for Ivan and his merry men.
If this is all part of a big scheme that will go right down to the wire (ending with a major unveiling) it’ll be fine, but imagine the fallout if it goes tits up, and it can do that in two ways: the signing the team needs (and the players, and we, are clamouring for) is secured but not till midnight on Aug 31st, by which time we’ve had an unsettled and unspectacular start to the season – see the last two seasons for further examples; or the whole marquee signing push falls through altogether and we get a repeat performance of the desperate last-minute panic buying that we had the misfortune of seeing not so long ago.
Either way, the faith of many long-suffering fans currently hangs agonisingly in the balance. After years of patience, if they cock it up again this time, it is not going to be pretty.
Great post @ 183 Duttlenheim, nice analysis and nicely argued. I cannot agree more. Indeed your comparison with the misdeeds of our former ‘felons’ is a consideration which I had not taken into account.
I think much of the anti-Suarez venom is a result of his legitimate and highly effective on-field activities plus his ‘gamesmanship’ much like the venom Ian Wright, Wright, Wright received from all opposition fans including even when he played for England. The handball against Nigeria (which was more instinctive than TH14’s against Ireland), the alleged racism against Evra and the utterly incomprehensible Hannibal Lector moment against Ivanovic are useful additional sticks to beat him with.
I think he can do much more for us than Higuain (who I think would also have improved us) as I think he can create goals all by himself as your stats demonstrate. I also have faith in AWs judgement. He clearly believes the ‘baggage’ is irrelevant.
Sign him up Arsenal. Cheer him on Gooners. The renaissance will then begin.
Happy belated Lars. Hope you had a great day. @ N7 Gooner …. I also think Suarez gets a rough ride. Two things I didn’t touch on … The diving and the handball in the World Cup. At first the handball really rubbed me the wrong way, but I got to thinking about it ( long before we bid on him ) and two things … He sacrificed himself for his team, got sent off and suspended. Low as it was there is something to be said for that. Secondly, arguably the greatest Gunner of all sent France to the World Cup with a handball so what do you want from me π
The diving will never stop bugging me and that includes every player. I always wonder if there really is a better chance of scoring from the resulting free kick then if the player would have stayed on his feet, tried to get a shot off, caused a rebound etc. It’s not so much a cheating issue with me as just a ” why give up on yourself like that ” issue.
Happy birthday Lars!
Duttlenheim – I suspect that the World Cup handball is the root cause of a lot of Suarez’ issues (those that aren’t of his own making, anyway). A hell of a lot of people were cheering for Ghana that night, and a hell of a lot of people thought what he did was outrageous. Consequently, the knives were well and truly out for him, and his behaviour was always going to come under close scrutiny.
I never really had a problem with the handball. Last minute of a quarter final, with the scores tied? You’d be barmy not to do it. I recall Kanchelskis doing something similar for the scum in a cup final vs Villa, and no one went ape over that. The other team gets a pen, you get a red card and that’s that.
I just wanted to add to my post above that I don’t mean any of it as a knock on Tony Adams. He remains a great man in my eyes, and I think the story of how he came back and found some sort of redemption is a really wonderful one. It demonstrates that this great club, as an institution, can play a role in helping individuals to find some sort of balance in their lives and live as better people. It did it for Adams, it did it for Van Persie (who was also a wild child when he arrived). I suppose the hope is that it can do it for Suarez.
@195 Bathgooner …. Once again thanks for reading the post and your kind words. I think our club can use another agitator. Besides Jack, who is somebody that the opponent knows is going to be under their skin all day? It’s a fine line though between that and ruining a season because of the discipline record. Let’s hope Arsene figures it out because he hasn’t always gotten that right.
You mention a renaissance and it truly is because this sort of outlay announces Arsenal as a Superpower. The fact the money is all self generated just sits with me better too.
For the record, I think Higuain would have been great and would have been very happy if we signed him. I just prefer somebody who a change a match in an instant through individual genius.
Zelalem Assist…
He scores when he wants! Thanks for the assist Duttlenheim
Well in Cent….great timing/goal-hanging.
Now, if you’d just stop diving….. π
@N7 Gooner. I agree 100% about Tony Adams. Without giving too much away, lets just say my personal history isn’t perfect π so I wasn’t slandering him. Just using examples all Gooners are familiar with. I really want to read his autobiography. I’ve read numerous people say it’s an amazing book. Not a typical ” footballer ” book.
Nice one ‘hoilc
http://ladyarse.co.uk/arsenal/2013/07/reconciling-my-hate-for-suarez-with-my-love-for-arsenal/
Sums it for me.
I hate him but I love Arsenal more. Would’ve loved Higuain though
Classy finish Cent. The way you made it look like an assist too!
Well in, Cent.
Koscielny and Ox both fit. Good news.
Arsenal team (v Urawa Reds): Fabianski, Sagna, Mertesacker, Koscielny, Miquel, Arteta, Wilshere, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Walcott, Giroud, Gnabry
Ex Liverpool pundits in May: “Finishing 4th isn’t a trophy. Arsenal shouldn’t be celebrating that. Winning a League Cup means more”.
Suarez in July: “I want to go to Arsenal and play in the Champions League”.
Ex Liverpool pundits (and manager) in July: “Why would Luis want to go and join Arsenal?”
I think we may need to start drawing them some diagrams.
Ollie@192: normally we wouldn’t have held it on the day of the first home game precisely for the reason you mention but for reasons that would make a far too long and far too boring story we had to do it this way this season.
‘long and far too boring’, sounds like a transfer window π
Cheers, Lars! See you in September then I hope.
Couple of questions. Do you all think that we will actually sign Suarez? How much would you be prepared to offer considering this is massively uncharted waters for Arsenal?
I accept the points about others not having the greatest past. The big difference with Tony Adams is that he was already at the club. Not that for one second I would condone his actions. I also can’t be dismissive of a bite either.
@Steve T … I just have a really warm feeling that AW is going to go haywire this window. On Suarez, whatever it takes. If I had to predict a figure, 45M cash with another 10M in add ons and 150k a week. If Cesc becomes available I think he will be on that train too. I have no idea what to make about Bernard. But if he sells Gervinho then there’s a spot for a wide player. I also think he might move Ox in the middle to make up the numbers there if Cesc stays so Bernard could fit that way. Either way I’m hoping for a 100M summer.
Duttlenheim. I admire your optimism, I really do. I think the Suarez deal is a long way off just yet. I also think that his preferred destination is Madrid and so if they enter the equation then we can kiss the whole deal goodbye. I know nothing whatsoever about Bernard apart from what I have read in recent days. Ifs and maybes re Cesc. I don’t think he will leave Barca just yet. I would also not be sure that he would head back to us either. This first option clause is all well and good but only if the player wants to come.
You may well be right about AOC. My concerns are that we are well into pre season and nothing has been done. We need an experienced keeper, a centre back and a top quality holding player to complement a striker. The season is 3 weeks away. Why we are dragging our heels when, in my opinion, the signings should be in and getting used to their new team mates is a mystery to me. At this moment in time I do not have too many good feelings. Why???? Because it is the same old stuff we have dined out on for years. I genuinely can’t wait to be proved wrong. Nothing would give me greater pleasure, but at the moment I am not seeing it.
Sitting here in. Sydney watching
Urawa reds v arsenal on setanta live
Arsenal look totally different with rosicky on
Shit 1-1
Steve T
Depends if another club come in.
If not, I think Suarez can be had for around Β£45m (halfway between the current bid and the Β£50m Liverpool are asking for), with maybe Β£5-6m of that as add-ons.
I think his actual market value is probably about Β£40m, but the lack of viable alternatives means we’re a little “all-in” on this one, hence the mark-up.
If Madrid come in then I think the deal will die on its arse.
The new manager of Barca has just said that Cesc is staying.
I wonder how much that whole thing is holding us up. I suspect Arsene will keep Β£30m or so in the kitty until he knows that Utd have dropped their interest.
Hopefully, the whole thing will die off now and we can move on and sign the midfielder we need.
Thankfully I have been far too busy at work to bother too much about this transfer window malarkey, for once.
That said, I had expected this Summer to be a good one for Arsenal.
Now I am confronted by the fact/rumour that we appear to be about to spend all of our newly acquired war chest on the objectionable Hannibal the Cannibal and Cesc is going to sign for the Manc scum.
Something seriously wrong with this picture.
We need a goalkeeper, a centre back, a defensive midfielder and a striker but not necessarily a Β£50M plus one (excluding the Danish prince).
Zico
Cesc isn’t going to sign for Utd. No matter how much the papers might cheerlead that deal, there’s no indication the player is interested (beyond made up murmurs from “friends”), that Barca want to sell, or that we’d be prepared to sit by and watch it happen.
It’s either a smokescreen for something else Utd are up to or it’s going to leave Moyes with egg on his face.
Akpom makes it 2-1 after huge mistake by Reds defense
Oh I could have saved myself the bother – Steve T already said it @ 212.
On the subject of the river cruise to Fulham – this was definitely in my plans until the fixture list put paid to it (see Holic above) – I have now had to choose between messing about on the river and messing about in the Tollie for Villa.
I’ve never been sea-sick in the Tollie. π
N7 – I agree with most of what you say/post on here, however….
How much of your post @ 217 is simply closing your eyes and hoping that it won’t happen?
I only ask because I tried this approach at the time I first heard about Van Persie was going to Utd and it failed miserably. π
N7. Ask yourself this. Why wouldn’t Cesc sign for united?????
Zico @ 220
Ha ha! Probably quite a bit of it!
The only thing which really suggests the deal might happen is that Utd keep bidding for him. That and the Mail and the Sun praying for it.
Everything else would seem to suggest he’s staying put. And by that I mean: Wenger’s public comments (I’ve spoken to him, he’s staying), Barca’s public comments (we won’t sell him), the lack of any indication from the player that he wants to leave, the confirmed existence of contractual clauses which would enable Arsenal a pretty good chance of blocking any such move, etc.
Put it this way – if Suarez to Arsenal is still a long way off, Fabregas to Utd is light years away.
So I’m not going to worry about it (too much).
Steve T: why? Because he’s at a better, bigger club, playing more regularly that people try to pretend, and with aging people ahead of him, he has the future for himself at BarΓ§a. Even more so now Thiago is gone.
I’m not going to pretend that he has higher ideal or morality than Robin Van Stapleton, but even more than not having any reason to go to Man U, he has no reason to leave BarΓ§a. In fact, I think he’d be mad to leave BarΓ§a just now.
Steve T
Because he currently plays for his boyhood club, with far better players around him (many of whom are friends since childhood), in a much nicer City, with far, far more chance of winning things and under a manager who isn’t David Moyes?
Because he hasn’t previously demonstrated any real desire to play for Utd or respect for them as an institution?
Because he (allegedly) never got on particularly well with Van Persie at Utd?
Because his club keep turning down Utd’s offers and publicly stating that they won’t sell him?
And that’s before we even get into whatever loyalty he is likely to have to Arsenal (an area I sense we are likely to disagree on)!
Okay, there’s a slim chance it could happen, but it looks a difficult needle to thread from where I’m sat.
Sorry, 224 should obviously say “with Van Persie at Arsenal”.
Bollocks, I’ve just read that the Emir’s father (so the guy who was the Emir until 3 weeks ago, really) is an Arsenal fan.
If I’d known I could have tried to get invited for tea, surely! π
It can’t be so well known though, as I never saw many Arsenal shirts.
His son (the new Emir) is obviously a PSG fan though, since he owns the club….
Perhaps I should have rephrased it. If Barca decided to sell him, then why would he not go to the mancs???? I think he will stay at Barca this year, but if it does not work out don’t think he wouldn’t go.
The Higuain thing is well funny now. Apparently a second press conf has been cancelled by Napoli.
Rumours seem to be that Real are, indeed, acting like cunts. It might well be why we walked away then.
Now there’s a surprise! Real acting like cunts. I apologise Ollie. I had forgotten about the innate cuntitude and had attributed it all to Maureen of late.
Forza Valencia! (or whatever the Spanish is)
Rumours Ollie?????? I thought we didn’t listen to rumours????
π
Taps nose. π
Haha Ollie, wouldn’t it be funny as hell if Real went all like “oh so..Arsenal are serious about the Suarez bid” and suddenly…
Perez : “Hey Arsene, hows things”
Arsene: “Fine and dandy, whats up?”
Perez: “If you get your hands off the Suarez, you can have Higuain for acceptable price”
Arsene: “Interesting, I might think of that, he has been already sold to Napoli though, am I right?”
Perez: “We can deal with that, we will just act like cunts once more, and you know we have quite bit of expertise in that”
Arsene: *laughter* That, indeed you have, anyways, if you can pull it off, I am up for it, bye *click*
Arsene then dons that irresistible smirk he has thinking “all going according to plan”
Steve: pure speculation of course, but Cesc has had a few quite public spats with Moyes (particularly when he got Arteta sent off at Goodison Park and then the other year at the Emirates when we beat them 2-1) and could conceivably not be that keen on playing with him as manager. In general I also think most players will want to see how Moyes does at ManU over at least the first season before going there.
And heh @Eandy!
(and btw, just imagine the collective nervous breakdown amongst many gooners if we would have had two press conferences cancelled like Napoli…)
Heh @ Eandy, what are you smoking over there?
Too right Lars – mass hysteria and the odd suicide!
If Cesc goes to United, I’m going to bite someone
I think Flappy has looked the business on tour and I suspect Wenger won’t buy a goalkeeper especially one that earns 50% more than the ones he already has. I also think Sagna will be used as an option at centre back and any defender signed would be used to cover across both full back positions. Wenger ‘s default is to save money and if he gets his hand forced over Suarez he will need all he can get. I find the Higuain thing amusing and stranger things have happened than us hijacking the deal. Or maybe at the Emirates Cup he can play one half for us and one for Napoli.
I agree with previous comments Re Shearer. Rioch’s focus on him got him sacked . We have to make this deal hapen soon so that we know what we Re playing with. It’s interesting to see the Mail story suggesting that United is in Cesc’s heart . It’s not what he’s been saying to his teammates.
Saw the second half v Urawa who were much better than Grampus but threw it away late on. Koscielny made a great saving tackle late on and Theo and Podolski were short of match sharpness. Ryo did well and Zelalem did very well although he got robbed once in possession. I think Wenger may promote Gnabry and Ryo and just but a defender, a defensive midfielder and Suarez/ Higuain
Hypothetical question… you are the manager. You have Β£85m (let’s say) to spend this summer, not inc wages.
Higuain is gone. Utd are chasing Cesc. Your info is that he won’t move this summer, but Utd seem persistent. You have a clause with Barca fixing any buy back at Β£35m.
How do you spend the money, and do you spend it all now and risk Cesc being put in play once the piggy bank is empty?
It’s all just pure speculation – you can either choose to focus on the positives or the negatives of that speculation or probably more wisely ignore it all together. Completely up to you.
Take my old favourite The Daily Fail.
Last night they ran a story headlined “United would be fab. Cesc reveals he’d love to join Moyes” – cue lots of clicks from Yanited fans.
Today, just 12 hours later they run a story headlined “Arsenal confident Fabregas will snub United for Emirates return” – cue lots of clicks from Arsenal fans.
No direct quotes in either, they are both just fluff.
Just for good measure they have also today run a story containing quotes from the new Barca manager saying that Cesc will stay.
So all bases covered. Whatever happens, no doubt The Fail will not be slow to tell us that they were first with their “exclusive”. It is a game.
I have no idea what will happen. But nor does The Fail, any other Paper or Sky effing Sports.
My guess for the record is that he will stay at Barca, but if he did come home it would be to Arsenal.
N7 @238,
Suarez Β£42m
Fabregas Β£35m (though I thought the buy back was Β£25m?)
Utility Defender/ DM – Β£15m.
If the Fabregas deal was being dragged out, I would pursue and buy other targets, but if he became available late in the day I would still exercise the option (even if I had to borrow to do so), safe in the knowledge that I would be getting him at an undervalue and could ultimately sell him at a profit if I had overplayed my financial hand.
That sounds about right to me tabs.
Rumours circulating today that Arsenal have two clauses re: Cesc: (i) matching right (i.e. take the player if you match any other “winning” bid; and (ii) fixed fee buy back at Β£35m, rather than the reported Β£25m.
All smoke and mirrors, but that’s the latest smoke I’ve seen being blown around the place.
For what it’s worth, I also think you’re right about Cesc – he’ll stay with them at least one more year.
Speculation speculation. I know nothing. But what Lars and baff said about the curren Higuain/Napoli weirdness, twitterarsenal would explode.
It’s true. I really am an Arsenal fan.
I’m impressed. π
Like I said before, if Sir Alex was in for Cesc I can see the allure. David Moyes not so much. That said, how many times have we thought ” he’s different then the rest ” and been burned? So I’m bracing myself for the worst.
Bracing myself for the worst is a normal situation, Duttlenheim. It could account for my occasional bouts of happiness. π
It’s all very confusing. Naturally I keep thinking of tomorrow as ‘Sunday’.
And I know that I’m leaving on Thursday.
Except I’m leaving on real Thursday, that is ‘Friday’.
Totally fucks me up when I try to think of budget and how much money I still need to take out.
Whilst there is still Heston’s Salted Caramel Popcorn ice-cream on sale in Waitrose I shall pay no heed to all the ridiculous will he, won’t he, briefing and counter briefing, rumour, counter rumour, cloak and dagger smoke and mirrors transfer bollocks.
And just enjoy this:
http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/video-the-ox-and-jenko-on-tour-in-asia-
π
The only semi-reliable “ITK” on Twitter (the bloke who last week called the Monreal injury and the last Suarez bid before the press) has just cryptically announced that he’s “hearing positive stuff re: Cesc”.
Unclear whether that means the player is banging Arsene’s door down or has just left a flaming dog turd on Moyes’ front doorstep, or even both.
Cheers for the info re the buyback N7. I’ve read so many conflicting things on it, I’ve actually just about given up on what it actually contains.
Heh at the vid Snowy. π
bath,
I have given up smoking few years ago..of all substances π but I would probably have hard time resisting if asked to share shi-sha with (still) ours Moroccos finest π
Seriously, of course I have no hopes of us hijacking Real/Napoli deal but how hilarious it would be. Also agreed, if for example Santis presentation was delayed _twice_ last year, the Arsenal fanbase would divide by zero, thus evaporate itself from existence in to oblivion π
7.40 in the evening, still 25 degrees in the shade and I’ve got a bottle of Westons Premium Cider right next to me. It is difficult to find too much to complain about at the moment.
The scenario I envision when I’m day dreaming. Cesc thought about Barca and said to himself ” I liked these cunts a lot more when I only had to see them a couple days at a time on international duty. I’m outta here. ” Throw in the playing time, 3 managers since he has been there, the girlfriend and baby in London, Neymar coming so no more ” False 9 ” role for Cesc and suddenly the boyhood dream isn’t so dreamy. Mancs come in and Cesc says sure, knowing full well that Arsene will swoop in to save the day. Arsene saves the day, and Cesc announces in the homecoming presser that while he loves Barca, he just loves Arsenal more. Don’t wake me quite yet thanks …..
9pm, 38Β°C (outside, not in) ), no beer or cider in sight π
If Cesc were to come home now, having spent half the summer leading on the Mancs, he’d be a national treasure in my book.
It’s almost too sweet to dream about – a perfect poke in the eye delivered to Moyes before he’s even overseen a competitive game, and a signal that the balance of power may be about to tilt back in our favour.
Not that it’ll happen – life is never that kind.
So I win then, Ollie π
Lars..I’m equally mellow. Just 23 degrees here, perfect blue sky and a trip to the local juicer awaits. Earlier today, walked into local town. It’s Lifeboat Week, culminating today in standard Red Arrows display team followed 2 hrs later by the Army Skyhawk parachute leap. All wonderfully visible in perfect conditions. The town was “jumping” to capacity and the pubs doing a roaring trade.
Come back to see that Cesc to Manure looks like a non goer (with a small chance he will come to us – still think he will stay Farca at least 1 more year). Liverfool looking stupid every time they open their mouths, the team are finally on their way back home from the Far East, allowing Arsene to put the boot up the arse of Dick Law & co and get the team deficiencies sorted PDQ! ( striker, “strong” midfielder, and CB). Just 3 weeks to the new season starts – yippee!!!!
Some of these blogs you read have comments from guys all over Africa imploring Wenger to just buy someone( the spelling is quite creative!) I’ve always cocked a bit of a snook at this attitude…until now when the lid may blow off if Wenger doesn’t do something soon.
It’s alright to counsel patience but we don’t have a good track record in closing deals and its just very natural to expect the worst in transfer windows . For what it’s worth I don’t think Cesc will leave Barca but if he does I expect he might end up at OT. What a hero he would be if he came to us instead of them. The feel good factor at the club with a top striker signing as well would be very positive. But the season starts in 3 weeks and brinkmanship has not served us well previously.We do have to accept with very big deals and top players things don’t happen quickly. I may ask the wife to teach me cross stitch to pass the time.
*Goes back to closing eyes and making wishes that bad things won’t happen*
Good evening all!
Been too busy to post in the bar for the better part of today, I see you’re all enjoying the morass that is the transfer window.
Hi five to everybody who congratulated me for my superb strike at 200(sign me up Arsene!).
Ttg, about the “creative spelling” of my brothers, it get’s right on me tits, it’s one of the bad effects of text messaging that has sadly crept into the fabrics of our society. Some of my students copy their notes in that form, a few even wrote their first tests like that, their re-sounding failure must have echoed through the whole school because I never came across it again over the past two terms.
Alright, I’m off to hunt for youtube highlights of today’s game.
Good afternoon folks.
Ahhh, the Cesc rumors. It’s really a testament to the player that two years after he left our club we still can hardly talk/dream about anything else…
Btw have y’all see this goal by Grenier? There’s great goals, and then there are goals like this… This guy’s stock is rising fast.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlflmSa4kC8
Heh! @Eandy. π
Dutt, 8ball,
Anyone anywhere near Wolfie is constantly bracing themselves for the worst. π
I bet this speculation is all going to end soon. π
Dutt @254, N7 @256 – spot on re Cesc. I’d love it !!! Just love it !!! π
Congratulations Redtruth @261 on your most stupid comment to date.
Sorry Holic.
Arsene “It looks unlikely before the Emirates Cup (the transfers). We are not close to sigh anybody. With or without additions we can be title challengers next season”
Come, on, you are not supposed to be saying this, even if you are bluffing. The fans are no longer calm, there is massive hysteria. That was not a smart move from Arsene.
I can’t take another groundhog day. Knowing that the money is there it will be too much.
Goonsterham, stunning goal. Another “target” missed – or not ?
Where’s that quote from Lurky ?
The Mirror.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/luis-suarez-transfer-arsenal-play-2093369
Tried to get on earlier, but got fucked off. Sort of lost what I was gonna say, so I’ll start again.
Love ‘hoilic, love this site! Up the Arse! Over and out. *thud*
For Β£35m we could surely sign someone better than Cesc … Fellaini, Bender, eg. That he never cemented a position in Barca confirms to me that he was mildly over-rated at Arsenal. Great on his day, but only second tier in international terms. Not that midfielders (except a defensive type) are a priority, we have a plethora of them plus the classy Bernard apparently.
Putting away all those missed chances we create remains the priority, and practically everyone now agrees Suarez is our best option. Unfortunately so do Pool, so they will stretch AW’s resolve to the max … something which hasn’t been too elastic in the past.
Inevitably it will go to the wire with Arsene arguing the last mil well into August. But no worries there, cos Suarez will be ineligible until September anyway!
Oskar
When you have time, do yourself a favour and read this.
I hate this mind games. “We are prepared to wait”.
We are not prepared to wait ffs. Chelsea, United, everyone else are prepared to wait till the end of the window. We are not. We must not be. We have that stupid CL qualifier with teams like Sociedad and Fenerbahce as potential opponents and at the club are looking so relaxed about it. I just can’t understand that.
Oskar, in which world exactly are Bender and Fellaini better players than Cesc, or did I misunderstand your post?
Sorry here is the link I wanted to post @270 http://t.co/nX9nTDEop9
I have just read the John Cross piece. You just have to hope that it is just all talk and that we are more than advanced with more than one deal. If not then the knives will be out. Especially if Higuain pops up with the winner for Napoli next weekend.
I must admit, I am getting very disillusioned with the whole situation.
Oskar,
Once Liverpool are resigned to losing Suarez it is not in their interest to delay things. They will need to get the deal done in order to organise replacements before the window SLAMS shut.
N.B. Transfer windows are very ill fitting things. They never close quietly. π
There’s not much Transfer Newfs.
Sorry there’s no ‘f’ in news.
Precisely ! π
Steve T, the problem is that, even if it’s just all talk, it is not quite intelligent to disturb 90% of the fan base with quotes like that. I had always been a fan of him, and that will never change no matter what. However if he fails this summer I am afraid he will fail this season and it will be the end of him at Arsenal. I can only hope he will make the right decisions as he mainly does. For his own sake.
What LO said @ 277. No question.
This is the Rubicon. Cross or fail.
Trev @ 276 – you are orrrfullll!
Fellaini and Bender would both be of more use to us than Cesc, Cent. We have enough midfielders already (plus another quality addition for the future in Bernard if the rumour proves) and only need boosting in the defensive area. Cesc would be a costly luxury, imo, when a costly striker is what we really need.
I’m beginning to wonder if any Fellaini deal isn’t dependent on improving the team in other areas before he’ll commit.
Could be a long wait… π
Oskar
Oskar, I am in minority just like you on Cesc issue. He would be luxury indeed. We do not even play the same game of football as we did when he was here. We moved on. So why stepping back?
Fellaini on other hand, will improve us, and give us attributes we don’t posses now. Him, Suarez and a decent CB and sky is the limit.
fair enough Oskar, I thought you were saying Fellaini and Bender were worth Β£ more in general terms.
I agree he will be a bit of luxury but if we get him, Mahmadou Sahko(I believe we’re in for him) Suarez/Rooney and a cheap DM like Schneiderlein or Capoue I’d say we’ve done good business.
Cesc is a top 5 midfielder in the world. Bender? Felliani? Huh? We are talking about Cesc here. There is more at play than what player does what for us in what role on the pitch. At least for me there is. I love Cesc and want him back.
Oskar don’t for a second think Fellaini or indeed any player can tell Arsene/Arsenal to beef up our squad or they won’t sign for us, Arsene/Arsenal will simply walk away, rightly so!
i am in the same camp as lurky, though i’d take cesc in a heartbeat just to keep him away from skunky cunt and the moyesettes.
@281 … This is a very potent formation with what we have and potential recruits. Cesc might settle quite nicely in this π …. 4-2-3-1
Sagna – Koz – BFG – Gibbs
Jack – Arteta
Theo – Cesc – Cazorla
Suarez
Yeah … I’m due back on planet earth soon but I Dream!!!!!!
Evening/Morning all (hic),
A special treat coming later on.
G’night.
Oh ‘holic, you tease!
Re: 286. Duttlenheim in, Gazidis out!
My reasoning being, that team could rip a wide one out of the Mancs’ title hopes and do it in a highly entertaining way. Money issues be damned. π
Also, moral and ethical issues be damned. Does that leave anything?
Oh yeah, I forgot coriander chutney issues be damned too.
Duttienheim @ 183 – Quality! Suarez will arrive for 45M.
I see you’ve jacked in your job. Retired? Sabbatical?
@292 BTM, Thank you. On the job, unfortunately just a short respite. I’ll be back at it again in a new gig in a couple weeks. Trying to use this time wisely though π
Duttlenheim@286: that’s a team that could win some silverware, but who’d be between the sticks?
Bt8b:I fear that Chelski rather than Mancs of either stripe will be the team to beat next season.
gl @262: the monks at Castle Ned price Grenier at β¬8 million, twice his price of a year ago and four times that of two years back. You are right that he is a fast appreciating asset.
And with that a hoof upfield knowing the unseen but ever present Lurky will be there or thereabouts…
traps Ned’s hoof a la rosicky, spins away from a marker and lobs to the far post…
Lob towards goal
Even Clichy scored!!
Lucky at 277. Spot on. A ridiculous statement to come out with.
I also agree with you and Oskar re Cesc. I don’t want him back, not after the way he performed. Yes he is a top class player but top 5 in the world???? I not sure he is in the top 5 in Spain????
Barca fought hard for three years or so using every dirty trick in the book to get Cesc. Man City wanted him, as did Real. ManU have made two bids in the Β£30+ million range this summer. All this for a player who supposedly isn’t really that great after all? Nah, can’t really agree there I’m afraid.
Getting Cesc back would be massive in so many ways, in my opinion. And for those saying we don’t really need him I suggest you look back at last season and look at how many chances we had to counter-attack but wasted because we failed to make the opening pass – precisely the passes that Cesc Fabregas is absolutely brilliant at making. And just imagine, if we allow ourselves to dream for a bit, if we could get him and Cazorla to work together. We’d have two players who can both play neat little passes into the box from tight areas, and we’d have two players who can shoot from distance. If opposing teams focus on Cesc then Cazorla is given space and vice versa, and if they double up on both then other players will be able to find plenty of space.
Kadigah scores a Gervinhoesque effort @300 – taking 25 minutes! to get the ball under control, beat himself three times and scuff the ball into the centre of the goal.
Well played ! π
The papers are reporting that Fenway have “unofficially” put Liverpool up for sale. Interesting.
Re: Cesc, the point at which he departed was when we went from being title challengers and a team that nearly beat Barca over two legs to an outfit that struggled for 4th, even with an on-fire Dutchman. That speaks volumes for me.
If you want us to be title challengers again then Fabregas returning would be a huge step in the right direction.
Lars,
Have to agree with you although it would almost be an embarrassment of riches in midfield. But, hey, we would be able to rotate, substitute and total footballise seamlessly – and that’s how you actually win things.
Cesc at his interested best was an incredible player – and he’s got plenty of years left to reattain those heights.
Add him, I say, to our long and “very exciting” list of summer signings …… π
And while I’m making up silly words, congratulations Bath, on extending a word I used the other day into “parsimoniousness”.
Word of the week, I reckon.
However, if one did not possess the quality of ‘parsimoniousness’ – what then ?
‘Parsimoniousnessless’ ? π
Totally agree with Lars re: the need for a player to pick the right pass. We were missing a through ball several times last season, particularly at WHL, where both teams played high lines but we couldn’t get anyone in behind.
N7@307: that game is a great example of what I mean. Cesc would have murdered the Totnum defense that day. Chelsea away was the same for large parts of the game, Walcott ran and ran but only once did the ball come and then he also scored. For all the qualities Cazorla posseses, the long pass in behind the defense from deep(ish) positions is a relative weakness.
Now hang on fellas !
I totally agree about Cesc but, ” the long pass in behind the defence from deep positions” is not a ‘strength’ of too many players. A relative weakness? of poor old Santi ? π
And if you want to get someone in behind, get Wolfie. Simples! π
True Trev, Wolfie can always get it in from behind!
CF4 had just developed the DB10 killer pass in behind the defence when the siren calls of Farca began. I could find a place for him in our team without a problem.
Trev, you are surely an antidisparsimoniousnessless fella are you not?
In the minority again I see.
Lars, if you play santi and Cesc what do you do with jack? What do we do about a holding player?
Cesc’s attitude in that last season with us was poor at times. I must say, I don’t want him back, regardless of how good he may or may not be.
A lot of transfer speculation on the holic site eh? π
A lot of good posts RE: Suarez by tabs, N7, Steve T, Ollie et al
I still don’t want him to be at our club. I don’t know, I just can’t defend his actions – Not only the the racism accusations but what about his biting, diving, cheating etc?
He is a cunt. Is he that good a footballer really? 40+ million worth?
Ah fuck it. I just want the season to start
Point of information.
Have the Scunts ever sold us a decent player?
Jimmy Carter is the only player that I can think of.
In recent times we tried to sign Alonso and Reina on separate occasions, were involved in protracted negotiations and then left at the end of the window with no deal and no time to get an alternative. I do hope that doesn’t happen again but the Scunts seem as cunty as Real when it comes to doing business.
and Jimmy Carter was utter shite btw.
Wolfsburg have confirmed they’re in talks with Bayern Munich regarding unwanted midfielder Luiz Gustavo.
We are waiting.
Wolfie is in town
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/active/8188393/Budgies-brave-the-cold.html
Where is Wolfie there, in fact?
Harsha
Totally understand that.
Personally, I didn’t really care about the biting. It was unpleasant and childish, but when you compare it to, say, that Norwich lad who broke Bac’s leg and didn’t even take a booking for it, you realise that it’s a pretty long way down in the pantheon of the footballing dark arts. Not that it’s OK, just that there’s a lot worse.
Speaking of which, I’m surprised that no one has raised stamping, which he was guilty of a couple of times last season and which, to my mind, is the worst of his crimes. Stamping on a downed opponent – bang out of order and quite dangerous.
The diving is really bad too, and I hope we would knock it out of him.
As for his quality… no one is worth Β£50m, it’s an insane sum of money, but I think he was the best forward in the country last season, and he scored 30 goals for a mid table side. He looks an absolute nightmare to defend against.
Bath @ 315 – Left at the window licking it more like.
For those with Virgin wondering about BT Sport, it looks like they might have done a deal to carry it as part of the XL package, with a slight price increase. Not confirmed but heavly rumoured to be the case with an announcement on Monday
Bath @ 315,
And thats the real issue I fear. Liverpool will happily let Suarez go to any other club, rather than lend any sort of credence to the fact that we have surpassed them. They may have more trophies than us, even in recent years, but they’re not in the CL league and the Suarez debacle highlights that more than ever.
Can you imagine what Lawro, Hansen…& co…. must think about this…?
For me Neville’s statement after the Newcastle game comes to mind, that we really needed to push on now that we’ve turned a corner. Well if you asked me then what that would have meant then I would have said that outside of Ronaldo and Messi, we should be looking to get top players ala Suarez and Cesc. And that’s precisely what it seems we’re trying to do.
Absolutely right Joe.
For the Scunts this is about more than selling a troublesome but excellent footballer. The sale of Suarez to Arsenal would be a very public demonstration that despite their Euro history and their own mythology, at least one of their own good players believes that they have slipped permanently out of the race in the EPL.
Hansen and Lawrenson will be on the phone to their contacts saying, “This must not happen!”
In the words of the great Nosher Powell, “Oh my fucking head!”
Bath,
I know its a little early to be talking about Whiskey: I’m normally not a big fan of Irish whiskey per se, (even though I’m Irish as there’s a tendency to swap flavour for smoothness as its triple distilled), but last night I had Jameson “Yellow Spot” 12 yr old which was just splendid if by any chance you come across it in your travels, make sure you have a nip!
Mind you, it does have a tendency to make you look and sound like Tom Waits the following morning! π
Looks like Esso had some too…!!
Esso, no pain, no gain. π
Speaking of no, no new shiny players?
*Goes back to closing eyes and silently wishing that bad things don’t happen*
Indeed bath,
It’s all due to my antidisparsimoniousnesslessness, of course. π
Heh @318 and 319!
Joe, it is a wee bit early for me and I felt my liver capsule contract a bit as I read that. π
(I was at a wine tasting last night with some old colleagues and it was deemed too ‘girly’ to spit.)
However I am partial to Jamesons (its often the only decent whisky left in the Tollie by the time I get there ) and I will look out for yellow spot 12 yo.
I have a fine bottle of Highland Park 18yo on my shelf now – a birthday gift from the bathlets.
if only I looked and sounded like Tom Waits in the morning! π
Nosher Powell…mahoosive heh! π
Thinking it through, I think one ought to adopt an anti-anti-undisparsimoniousnesslessness stance when it comes to transfer deals.
I’ve lost track of the double negatives there bath. Great tactic for diffusing the situation π
Steve, you could play a midfield five along these lines:
Jack-Arteta
Walcott-Cesc-Santi
With Jack, Cesc and Santi quite possibly swapping positions during the game. That would mean we could play Podolski in a central striking position and rotate him and Giroud depending on the opposition and injury/fatigue. Also given that Jack probably still needs to be eased back to make sure his injury is 100% healed you could play Ramsey in that position quite a lot. We would also have Rosicky to play as an impact sub and as a starter every now and then. Having all these players would mean that they could all be given a rest every now and then, something we’ve lacked in recent years.
Holic, if only it had been just the double double double negatives – try pronouncing “anti-anti-undisparsimoniousnesslessness” without sounding like you are really drunk…
Lars. That midfield is too small, too lightweight and too attack minded. For me the balance is not right. I also think that Jack is wasted that far back. I think he can be a better player than Cesc and playing that far back will stifle his development and is a waste of his ability.
We have spoken about Cesc at length. I do not believe any of this Barca DNA garbage. As you know, I also feel that he let the club and Arsene down very badly.
Big Per still got the number 4 shirt according to dot con….
We sure have been over it a few times, Steve π
All of this is, however, most likely only hypothetical anyway because I think he’ll stay at Barca.
Heh @ 336
Lars @ 335:
Thats exactly what I think will happen.
The more I see Jack, the more convinced I am that he’s best position is as a deep lying holding midfielder or maybe even a DCM in years to come. That’s not to say he’s not capable of being a playmaker, I just don’t think he’s as good as Cesc or even Cazorla for that matter in that role.
I agree Lars. 2 seasons is not enough considering the fuss he made about returning home.
I know it’s been covered earlier in these drinks, but Wenger’s latest comments have really taken the wind out of my sails. The great optimism I had in May has been replaced with that familiar feeling of apathy that was the default setting of transfer windows of the past few years. From Yay! to Meh…
This had better be the biggest and best pulling of the wool over everyone’s eyes from Wenger ever seen by anyone, it really had.
Holic,
With your kind permission, this is interesting:
http://www.gunnerstown.com/arsenal/2013/7/27/luis-suarez-cesc-fabregas-and-wayne-rooney-what-is-their-value-and-are-they-worth-it-for-arsenal
Back from a little drive in the desert. Well on roads and motorways, not through the sand. It’s well sandy though, and boring.
Steve T
I hear what you’re saying re: Cesc and midfield balance.
Out of interest, would you buy him back if the alternative was letting him go to Utd? I still don’t believe Fabregas would go there, but it’s an interesting hypothetical.
Hey Holics,γhope everything’s fine with you!
Sir Holic, you got mail sir. 8)
A ‘holic exclusive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hmmmm, a lot of rose-coloured specs have been donned re Cesc, imo. He was good, but not that good, and though I never wanted him to go to Barca I don’t now see the need to have him back when we have a very healthy looking midfield already. I suspect we had the best years from him that he’ll ever have to give. Nor do I see the lack of through balls being our problem, which remains not having the class upfront to put away a better percentage of the many chances we create.
And as for Pool not wanting to sell Suarez to us cos it would imply we’ve surpassed them I seem to remember they had no problem selling Torres to Chelski. Are you suggesting they believe the chavs are their superiors?
Oskar
Hi all,
I am going to back drink. But until then (and excuse my ignorance here), the media and Liverpool are irritating me a tad.
Can someone (anyone) explain to me why, if we do not use release clauses on the UK, then why are we being told it’ll take 23mill to release Fellaini from a UK club?
As i understand it, release clauses don’t actually release the player anyway. All they do, is allow the bidding club to speak to the player (in any jurisdiction, unless otherwise stated). This would fit in with what Wenger has said:
“we are unlikely to sign anyone before the ems cup” and “it’s difficult to get in contact with anyone because everyone is on tour”
From that I read that we have permission to speak with Surez, but for the fact that his club ( and rightly so) have kept him hostage on their tour, which finishes on the same day as our Ems cup.
We are looking at speaking to Luis next week and the only way we will convince them lot to take our generous offer seriously, is for Luis to hand in transfer request, which undoubtably will be rejected.
Now I’ve always believed that if the player wants out and the money represents your intentions when you agreed to thee contract terms, you should just let the unhappy player go (see Arsenal since 2005).
In short, my guess is that this argument will go down to the wire with us teaching the world yet more about football and them lot posturing as though they are still the biggest club in the EPL
Verdict: we’ll have to wait and see.
NB: I-phone drafted, so don’t watch the spellings.
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Highly descriptive post, I enjoyed that a
lot. Will there be a part 2?