Gunners Lay Down Their Arms At St Mary’s
Jan 1st, 2015 by 'holic
Taking time to consider the events of today turned out to be a wise move. What could have been a dream holiday period for us disintegrated at St Mary’s where the hosts deservedly secured for now their top four berth. Going into today all around us had dropped points over the festive period and given the result in the late match we could have grabbed fourth spot and narrowed the gap on the leaders to ten points.
Instead the traveling faithful, on surely the worst day of the year to watch football given the hangovers most were probably nursing, were subjected to one of those appalling performances we produce every now and again. It is perplexing that they seem to come round rather more often this season. Yes, we have an injury (and suspension, Giroud) crisis in midfield and up front. The match was lost today by the defence being pulled out of shape and producing basic errors. That was our first-choice back five today. Thank goodness the transfer window opens on Saturday.
I look for excuses. Did they not get that much protection from the makeshift pairing of Calum Chambers and Francis Coquelin ahead of them? Whilst the jury is out on Chambers at the moment Coquelin put in a pretty full shift and made some important tackles prior to collecting his inevitable yellow card. He is more mobile than, and just as mean-spirited as, Mathieu Flamini, himself an addition to the injured list today.
Ahead of them an unusual mixture as the rarely spotted Tomas Rosicky and Santi Cazorla rotated between left-flank and the ‘hole’. Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain had a day back at his old stomping ground he may prefer to forget, running into blind alleys and surrendering possession too cheaply. Then we had Alexis Sanchez switched to lead the line in the absence of Olivier Giroud, Danny Welbeck, and Yaya Sanogo. He suffered a couple of early ‘reducers’ and a lack of quality supply, but the advanced role isn’t one he looks comfortable with, being Arshavin-sized.
We weren’t without our chances. Santi didn’t quite get the contact he wanted early doors and the Ox came very close to giving us the lead with a superb swerving effort. Then the defence found itself stretched as the Saints probed our left flank. Kieran Gibbs was caught out of position, Laurent Koscielny made a poor effort to prevent Mane from advancing into the box, and Wojciech Szczesny decided to come, then stop, then retreat into no man’s land as Mane chipped goalwards. That left Per Mertesacker to deal with the danger but he could only help it into his own net.
It might have been worse but Szczesny was more alert to the danger and saved superbly, if unorthodoxly, from Ward-Prowse. Quite what must have been said in the dressing room at half-time is anyones guess, but whatever it was it didn’t work. We had a great chance to level but Forster saved superbly from Alexis and shortly after that we conceded a second soft, comical to non-Gooners, goal. Mathieu Debuchy attempted a pass-back from point-blank range and Szczesny could only poke it to Tadic who accepted the gift of an easy finish.
At 0-2 we needed something to spark a side that frankly looked to be suffering a bigger hangover than some of the supporters. It could have come in the shape of a red card for for Gardos, clearly the last man, and denying Alexis with a cynical foul from behind as the Chilean bore down on goal. Referee Pawson, which indeed was an apt name for the hapless coward, decided it was only a yellow.
Left at eleven against eleven we were clearly second best. Theo Walcott was apparently introduced for the last half an hour but had about as many touches as I did at the Cheltenham Festival last year. The paucity of our options was demonstrated when Chuba Akpom was given six minutes plus stoppage time to save the game. It was beyond his peers for the 84 minutes that had gone before, so he escapes any blame for this poor showing.
On Sunday we start our defence of the FA Cup. We will have to produce a much better display than this if we are to get past last year’s Final opponents, even with the benefit of home advantage. From Saturday and for the remainder of January we will see just how seriously we are taking this season. The squad needs supplementing in very obvious areas. To expect players to maintain form and fitness when as a squad we have a track record that proves the opposite would not be fair to them, or the supporters.
Will we be window-shoppers, or serious buyers. It’s a big month ahead.
232 Responses to “Gunners Lay Down Their Arms At St Mary’s”
Goalkeeping howlers.Terrible start to the year.Somethings gotta give.
1st over the cliff 🙂
Indeed January is now massive not just for this season but Wengers tenure one feels.
Up The Arse,
“It’s sad, so sad
It’s a sad, sad situation
And it’s getting more and more absurd…..”
Like a trophy. 🙂
“Yes, we have an injury (and suspension, Giroud) crisis in midfield and up front. The match was lost today by the defence being pulled out of shape and producing basic errors. That was our first-choice back five today. Thank goodness the transfer window opens on Saturday.”
Absolutely spot on Holic. January is now a massive month for us.
Excellent, balanced report. Let’s hope that this hangover is cured long before Sunday?
thanks for a pretty balanced account…
Here’s to a productive and proactive January splurge!!!
UTAH!
Bloody iPad autocorrect!
Thanks for been the voice of reason once again. With the injuries we currently have we were bound to have a performance like that during this festive season.
It’s hard to believe but we’ve got more EPL points in the past three games than The Chavs & Manure.
Measured analysis, H. Voice of reason, alright.
Great observation re points haul, Cent.
Thanks, Holic for a difficult report to write.
Much appreciated as I’m still waiting to take my medicine on Sky in about 5 minutes.
The only comment I feel qualified to make at the moment, is to agree with you about Arshavin sized centre forwards in the Premier League.
It is not fair on them because, in this league, they are always going to take a hammering as, indeed, it sounds like Alexis did today.
Right, off to take a look. I may be some time………
Holic
I sense a deeper exasperation in you than has been the case previously and my feeling is that it stems from a wish to see the club addressing the problems with the speed that we want them to. Frankly I can’t remember a transfer window when zi felt we did a complete job. I always feel AW should have done more.
I am still fairly sanguine about the holiday period. We played four games, three of them away against rivals for the CL places and had two wins a draw and today a disappointing defeat. If we had held on at Anfield I think we would have started the day with the best Christmas record this year but we all know what happened there. But no team cantered through Christmas. No team except Everton seemed to play consistently and their performances were consistently awful! Even Chelsea today, the relentless machine, saw the wheels come off. Citeh played two minnows and scraped four points conceding four goals.
We need to take a very serious view of retaining our trophy, try to acquire good quality where we are weak and get our stars back. If we can have a good January, and the fixtures are variable zi think we. An build momentum, but losing players as we do it is so hard to build momentum.
Ospina will start on Sunday and I expect a fairly strong team . Sunday is a big match emotionally and in terms of creating impetus but Wenger knows that and I think we will be OK.
Two top 4 sides met today on equal points.
One had speed, power, size and a physical presence in every position
One had an awesome DM who bossed the match
One had a decisive dominating GK who didn’t lol like fucking up.
One had a tall fast and strong forward line who always looked dangerous
One had decisive disciplined strong and tall back four
One had a small skinny and soft underbelly to the performance.
One team was very enjoyable to watch go about their business of completely dominating the other team.
One team had the worst goalkeeping performance you will ever see in the top flight.
Well done southampton…
Far too good for this arsenal side who were never in he game and never looked like scoring.
Well done Ronald koeman.. Far too good for wenger.
I thought Arsene told the world there was no quality players available.
Maybe he should have a look at southamptons team sheet. Few handy ones there…
‘holic
more than aware
my contributions here
viewed dismissively
but
i’m a gooner
long standing
(yeah irony)
of over 40 years
.
an i am far from 40
.
today was a fuckin fuckin of a fuckin
but the missus reminded me that
I said 3 nil bad guys last night
.
fuck
If Arsene Wenger doesn’t address the obvious weaknesses that have plagued Arsenal for a long time now he must surely be on course for more failure. He seems to be unable to build a strong defensive unit and the teams he set out often look disjointed and vulnerable . We fans can forget about challenging at the very top in the EPL and the CL under this sort of management .its a pity because Arsenal are a big club with a fantastic stadium and a large fan base . Wenger has not invested enough in bringing in world class defenders and holding mid fielders , and as a result the team gets beaten when up against the strong sides who are also tactically and technically well prepared . Is it time for Wenger to make way for a new man with fresh ideas . Yes I think so , as the same mistakes are being made season after season and arsenal deserve better !
Aussie n
A good tale. But hardly factual.
Le Coq played very well. It was Per and Kos that effed it up. And debucy.
Bit Carry on.
Not my first team defence, Martin, I’d have Monreal ahead of Gibbs every time. And if you include the DM position we had two or three missing from there today. Also, on not just this performance I think Per has past his ubd and maybe there’s a better option in the lower grades somewhere. Or in the transfer market, Hummels for one!
This was a game tailor made for Theo to start in the 9 spot, instead Alexis was wasted there. He wasn’t exactly playing a traditional 9, but he was too far forward most of the time to have his usual influence on it. By my count Theo was on the park for 20 minutes before he got a touch. What does that say about the midfield?
And all those wishful-thinkers wanting Cal at DM, well that’s what you get folks.
And my usual complaint … why do our players always shoot along the ground when there’s so much space in the top half of the goal where keepers find it harder to judge the flight and usually further to get to?
Deeply frustrated with our appalling performance. Surely we can’t be this bad again this season?
Öskar
*passed
howdy homer
hope yer well
always a good read yer posts
Have you watched much football, Alex? You and Aussie are either very young or have a shared myopia.
Öskar
Great post Holic, lots of truth there.
May I refer everyone to TTG’s excellent post in the last drinks: too much hubris after each win, too much whining and rending of garments after each defeat.
We’ll have better days.
COYG
howdy oskar
ya mad nut
🙂
YOU calling ME a mad nut, cba? Ya crazy versifier!
Compliments of the season by the way. 😉
Öskar
howdy n7
happy New year
and
thanks an absolute bundle for yer posts
brilliance constantly
.
ya tart
😉
Second that N7
Öskar
happy everythings oskar
yer a goodun
😉
Cheers cba – happy new year to you too mate. Good to have you about – this place always benefits from a well turned phrase.
And a tip of the hat to Oskar as well – hope all is well your end.
How about ‘shaper’, N7? A well-turned ‘phrase’ in the anagramic sense.
Öskar
All is as it should be here, N7. The problems are all in North London currently.
Öskar
Fair report ‘Holic and absolutely spot on.
Oskar @16
Chambers at DM didn’t turn out the way we as fans wanted to, indeed. But I don’t think even for a second that is was the position on the pitch that was the main problem for him today. He was equally shocking at rb and cb in majority of the matches in the past month or two.
As someone who was expecting a great things from him, I must say that I am deeply disappointed with the way things turn up for him this season. Talented player but it is evident that he was overplayed this season and that he needs a rest.
Homer , my post @12 is completely factual in every word, bar none.
Oskar @19, you are better than that post, but I suspect there is no otherfactual alrernative to defend of our apalling displaytoday, so iguess name calling is the only way to defend and excuse the indefensible and inexcusible..
No talk of money oil rich or referees the cause of our latest failure…
Fair comment, Lurky. I didn’t mean to focus blame on him, we were poor all over the park, but especially in defence where we were at our supposed strongest. It does highlight the importance of the DM position though.
Everyone is being overplayed due to the injuries, which remain our major problem. And not helped by seeing the spuds rejuvenated by Kane. They could be a real threat in the second half of the season.
Öskar
Alex
If failure in 2015 is to not win the league or Champions League then we are abject failures. But in reality your use of failure is a ridiculous word. Seventeen years of qualifying for the most lucrative and glamorous club competition on earth , fifteen years of getting through the group stage finishing only below three of the richest clubs in the world. During their pre- Wenger history Arsenal finished in the top four 25% of the time. Since he joined it is 100% of the time. In 110 years we had won the FA Cup 6 times. We have won it five times in the past 17 years.
The disappointment cones because Wenger has raised the bar to what we will come to see is an insanely high level and occasionally knocks it down. Don’t get me wrong the guy can drive me potty but not as potty as people who see this current regime as failures.
I’d be interested in the blueprint of anyone who can make us more successful. It would take about a billion pounds, require us to charge even higher prices than we do now or use the money of someone who would hire and fire on a whim and would change the character of what is a very special club. Do I look at Chelsea and envy or admire them? Not really. I’m a Gooner and proud of our brand of failure
So which of the Saints players who played today should AW buy, Aussie? Forster for sure, he’s quality, and maybe Schneiderlin (who didn’t play) but which of the rest would cure our problems?
The problem today wasn’t how well they played but how poor we were. We’re a lot better than that, as I’m sure you know.
Öskar
I apologise if I offended you, Aussie, but your #12 was so simplistic I assumed you were new to the sport. Or certainly new to the club.
Öskar
Oskar, I know that I would welcome Wanayama and Alberweildt (I am sure this is not the correct spelling) and that Clyne, Mane and Bertrand (even though a Chelski loanee) are decent players.
We already have a full complement of decent players, Lurky, unfortunately too many of them are either injured or playing too much football. I don’t see any of your suggestions making the kind of difference we need. Not compared to better players we are, according to the gossip, already pursuing.
Give me Hummels and Khedira or Schar (or Schneiderlin) and a better break on the injury front and we’ll soon be firing again.
Öskar
Oskar,we are better than that of course, but there is no denying our inconsistency is extreme in both ways.
Fans reactions are simply matching the teams extreme performances and in some cases only days apart.
Our poor games are disgraceful, our good games are excellent.
We dont have a middleground and southampton were far better than us today in nearly every position.
Wanyama comes to mind as does their centre half and their striker, just to name a few, oh and their keeper and their two midfielders.
As they are all not big name players, I am sure they are not super dooper top top quality.
Southampton
Firstly, ttg, two very good posts in this and the previous bar.
As a team, I thought our first half performance was, overall, more positive than I had expected from everything I’d read. We are still really struggling to effectively contain attackers on both flanks though, allowing far too many crosses to make it into our box. And the sight of opposition forwards cantering into yards of free space on our left side is driving me nuts.
Coquelin – determined, gutsy, tough, maybe not world class but, I think, turning into a very useful squad member.
Chambers – not yet a DM for me. Not surprising in the least, and you can’t expect a 19 year old with very little experience to come into a team like The Arsenal and be a successful right back, centre back and defensive midfielder in twenty games. Stupid innit ?
Alexis, even on a difficult day, in a position that doesn’t suit him, is a non-stop bundle of energy and class. The lack of a red card for the Gardos foul on him was ridiculous.
Cazorla does a lot of very creative work but has to improve his finishing. He seems to be missing at least one effort per game from point blank range.
Koscielny, normally quick and decisive, looked unsure and hesitant today. Hopefully that is not a sign of his Achilles tendons causing more problems.
Szczesny epitomises the whole team at the moment. Capable of brilliance one minute and the most bemusing rashness and incompetence the next.
Very strange from a team with a manager who always names consistency as the most important quality.
To me it seems we lack the physicality to properly impose ourselves on the game. As a result it becomes very difficult to develop a real pattern of play. Yes, we have the square balls across the back four, out to the full back and then back into the back four again, but ahead of that it all becomes very random.
In those halcyon days of Vieira, Pires, Bergkamp, Henry and Lungberg, there was shape and method in our attacking play. Now, the shape and even the personnel found in our attacks seems to be almost completely unpredictable.
Maybe that is by design and is intended to bewilder the opposition. Unfortunately, too often, it seems to have the same effect on us.
Somehow we have to find reinforcements in the January window. Not easy, but if we decided in August that Arteta, Flamini and Diaby were good enough for our midfield, and no cover at all was good enough for our centre backs, it shouldn’t be too hard to improve on that.
Here’s hoping.
Cba,
Viewed dismissively ? Not by me.
Nor Oskar.
Oskar@35, no offense taken mate.
Just amazed how when we play atrociously, that simplicity and the obvious are not allowed…
Southampton were very disciplined, patient and had a simpleeffective plan.
Nothing wrong with simple when you play the way they are…
Ttg, another great post @33.
Your mention of our “failures” just makes you regret, more than ever, the fact that we never get a chance to take on the best with all of our best.
Someone has to find the answer to our horrendous injury situation or we will simply never know how good this team could be.
If physio room are right by the time we play our next league game we should have Ramsey, Arteta, Poldi, Sanogo, Welbeck and Ozil all back. OG will have served his suspension and hopefully Theo will have had some game time. With any luck at least that will stop the bench looking like a bingo card.
Oskar@34. I would welcome any from Wanyama, Schniederlin, Forster and Fonte at the moment. All would have improved our squad to some degree.
Every win a triumph – every loss a failure. Blimey. I hope this isn’t applied to everyday life or I fear a number of posters here may be with us only briefly.
Perspective dispensed, as always, by Holic.
I too thought Coquelin played very well and that Alexis, Santi and TR were always willing without being particularly effective.
Our defence will have better displays than the comedy acts we produced today but I am more concerned with our keeper. Yes he can be brilliant on his day but the ever increasing number of times he has gone walkabout is not diminishing. He clearly needs better coaching – who is our goalkeeping coach these days?
UTA.
Noosa – boom!!
Well said. Cheers.
Damnt! . . . Its freezing here and im out of whiskey!
Wretched doesn’t quite do this one justice. I said before the game if Arsenal set up with Sanchez in the middle they’d lose. He’s not a striker. He’s a wide forward or a winger. A Ronaldo as opposed to an Ibrahimovic. Sanchez is at his best with Welbeck or Giroud up front so he can play in space and take people on. In the middle he gets sandwiched by the opposing center backs, who are always bigger and stronger.
Southampton should have had a man sent off for denying Sanchez the goal scoring opportunity, but if you recall, there were two men right on him and he nearly scored anyway. Even so, if you need to play against 10 men to win, you don’t belong in the top 4.
Arsenal are looking very much like a 6th or 7th place team and given Arsene Wenger’s winter signing habits; it is hard to see that changing. Last season, Arsenal lost games the dominated and lost big to the big boys, but mostly took care of business against the small fry. This season Arsenal looked outmatched at Stoke, got a schooling from West Ham, and surrendered cheaply to Liverpool.
To salvage the winking ship, Arsenal must address their deficiencies not just add quality. Sanchez is a great player, but when he’s playing in front o of Flamini and that Train Wreck of a defense, it’s like having your Ferrari towing a caravan.
The problem is not caused by szcezney himself, the problem is the system and management that allows him to continue to make the same amatuer mistakes over and over again without any recourse.
Some on here were calling him the best keeper in the epl ?
Now that is funny…
arsenal and Arsene was schooled today on how to play the modern game of football…
Southampton were Physically stronger, tactically more astute and more skilful in every position bar none…
The team is not good enough. End of. There have been several appalling performances this season. Against Anderlecht, Dortmund, Swansea, Stoke, and Hull.
The injury situation is not an excuse, but simply a sign of a general malaise that afflicts the club. The fact that we are afflicted with this curse every season CANNOT be a coincidence.
Southampton is a team that LOST the core of its squad, and yet still has been able to punch above its weight. Arsenal lost today because of a pattern of self destructiveness that has now become innate.
It is time for Wenger to go; there is little evidence to suggest that the club will go to another level with him at the helm.
Malo. Is that spanish for “bad”? Or Italian? Or just – “bad”?
You seem in earnest. So: who to replace AW?
I honestly dont know. And the flavors of the month (eg koemn, pep, , klopp, etc.) that are bound to other clubs are not solutions are they?
Say sack AW – and there is an argument for that for sure – but replace him with whom? Whats yer plan? How to go forward? Bould at the helm?… Surely not. This term with no plan and an interim hired gun … Is that what the club is all about? No – that question answers itself.
Anger, vitriol, scortched earth and alll that. Easier said then done i think.
No thanks.
Have a drink on me (on Lars tab course) and siddle jp to the bar. It’s gonna be okay.
Whenever we lose a game, these people come out of their holes to say “Wenger Out!” However, whenever we play well and win, everybody stays silent, as if they are all about an agenda. These fans really irk me and make me just want to watch the games and avoid blogs and newspapers altogether. It’s fucking ridiculous!
Somebody posted above that we were schooled by West Ham. How did this happen? Did you watch the game? If you didn’t, we had a million chances on the counterattack but failed to score. By schooling us, did you mean West Ham making several crosses into the box in the last 10 minutes that were dealt with very well by our defence and goalkeeper?
The performance today was shambolic, but it doesn’t mean we need to fire the manager after every defeat. If the brilliant, readily available new manager that all these people with their boring, monotonous agenda are advocating, should come in and lose games, I guess he should be fired too.
Trev, Oskar and TTG – great posts above.
Haven’t posted here in a while because just got tired of the negativity this past year. But had to put some perspective on today’s match. Yes, we were poor and Chezz had a howler of a match. But at least we didn’t lose 5-3 to the crap down the road with a team that cost over 500 million pounds and have the biggest cunt in the world as a manager.
I’ll take Arsenal and Arsene over that any day.
It helps that I’m drunk.
And props to Ttg, Trev, Oskar, Impec1, N7, cba, plus anyone I missed who’s post I liked.
And of course, as always, thanks to ‘Holic for the best blog on the planet.
Poor performance, but I kind of expected this and was not that surprised. TTG, Oskar, N7, Trev et al. had already touched upon the impacts of injury and the schedule so not much to add.
If I may, I respectfully disagree with Lurky (whose tactical analysis and knowledge of players across Europe’s other leagues I rather enjoy ) and others who think there are multiple players from this Southampton side who can immediately make a positive impact on Arsenal squad (if and when majority of our current squad members are fit). I think it is an illusion that is triggered by our current inconsistency and not any significantly greater (than our players) qualities from the Southampton players.
We have been through this particular experience of thinking players being better in the “other” team a few times before. Typically this other team had been someone chasing us unexpectedly or showing a good form that puts our top four in question. 08-09 Villa gave us a fright and there were talks about Agbanlahor and Young and one or two others. The 12-13 season the scum were I think seven points ahead of us and we were talking about Lloris and Vertonghen etc. Last year Everton were all the craze and Lukaku, Baines, Barkley all were potential Arsenal first-eleven candidates.
Not saying any of them are bad players, far from it, but just because they are showing a sign of form and consistency in a particular set-up when we haven’t been able to doesn’t necessarily mean they are players who would make us better.
For instance, if Wanyama were playing for Arsenal he would be red-carded every other match, so forceful and clumsy his challenges are. Mane has no defensive work-rate and little ability to play with his back to goal.
Southampton is having an extraordinary run to most people’s surprise. They are a good team and have been able to keep majority of their spine fit. They have no pressure on them — they are over-achieving — and no European commitment and no expectation of any kind of run in any Cup. A group of capable, talented, disciplined players who have been well coached and have been able to catch everyone by surprise. That by no means make them a better side than Arsenal who have been injury-ravaged, under extreme pressure, yet managed to get to the CL R16 from a tough-ish group and just 4 points behind #3 in PL. And half a season of prominence doesn’t make Koeman a better manager. Last year everyone was singing high praises for Brendan Rodgers and one sell (immediately compensated by buying a hatful of players ) and another injury after his team has struggled in Europe and PL alike. Consistency a la Arsenal is NOT that easy.
We will make the top four, we will strengthen in Jan or in summer and will have a proper pre-season — essential for success in Wenger-ball, Arsene never own the league following a WC or Euro — under our belt to give the league a proper go. However the injury situation really needs to be sorted and in that context the earlier-than-expected returns of Giroud and Debuchy probably indicate that for any new players that we look to buy a history of physical “robustness” is a key criterion.
@55: “Arsene never WON the league following a WC or Euro” I meant. 🙂
“It is time for Wenger to go; there is little evidence to suggest that the club will go to another level with him at the helm” – Malo #50
But plenty of evidence to suggest that the club improved several levels under his helming initially, and has more or less held its own since in the face of massive overseas investments in competing clubs, lack of transfer funds consequent to building the country’s best stadium and other facilities, and an impossible plague of injuries.
Otoh there is zero evidence of a genius replacement anywhere in the football world who could improve on AW’s results, or even sustain them. Hire one and the next level we go to could well be downward.
I think it likely that if we fail to retain the FA Cup or to achieve CL qualification next year (and both are possible) that AW would offer his resignation. But I am quite certain the board would reject any such offer and insist he sees out his contract. So speculation by the Wengerahht brigade is so much wasted keyboard fingering, imo.
Öskar
One question, it seems the newest excuse for our failure is because somehow magically Ronald koeman is able to keep the spine of his team in tact.
How is he able to do this given he has no money to spend and his team was ripped apart at the start of the season…
How is Ronald koeman’s team of no name kids able to dominate the arsenal with all our world class industry leading facilities, superior funding and club support abailable to our manager.
They didn’t just beat us with a flukey last minute corner kick, they dominated our team from start to finish and we actually never looked like scoring.
We can either continue to look at the arsenal with a “past tense” and ” past glory” view or we can look at the arsenal with the future in mind.
Is wenger simply managing the team well, are we being our best, are the results on the field equal to the clubs support of the manager.
Some really good posts from Trev, Dr, F, OTD and Martin W and ECG your drunken state vid not prevent you making a very good point. In fact I achieve a clarity while drunk which prompts me to achieve that state increasingly!
Trev’s analysis of a game I have only really glimpsed on MOTD was really helpful.
It seems to me we have a number of players we cannot rely on given their injury record . Gibbs, Arteta, Ramsey, Diaby, Wilshere, Walcott, Rosicky, Sanogo and Gnabry are all regularly injured and cannot string a run of games together – and sadly never will. I’m also expecting an injury for Ox very soon. In a 25 man squad that is a third of the manpower and seven of them play in midfield. ( eight if you count Ox) One could argue that if we don’t recruit from within ( and Crowley and Zelalem plus Maitland- Niles might have enormous ability but lack the experience and nous to play regularly) we might look at two midfield signings or using Coquelin and Chambers there with someone with real experience and quality. One of our midfield signings could be a loan. I also think BFG is either injured or has a real psychological issue. He is patently honest about his motivation since the WC and I think this is where part of his problem lies. When you have no pace you don’t get slower and this is not his problem but you need players around him that compensate for his lack of speed. The mix and match idea of CBs has worked better than it deserved to and in Monreal we may have found a genuinely adequate fourth CB but we do need a proper , experienced CB to slot into the team and give BFG a chance to recharge his mental and physical batteries.
Again I hope we might have these in place asap certainly before we play Citeh on 18th Jan. As Martin W points out we may have a number of players returning then . Today’s bench looked threadbare although I thought Akpom might have been worth a start and certainly more than six minutes.
I hope the management analyse this stuff in the same detail as Goonerholics!
So in summary TTG@60:
All is fine except with the team except the fact that we are crocked from front to back and in deep shit as a club going forward.
Excellent…..
Aussie@59:
“How is Ronald koeman’s team of no name kids able to dominate the arsenal with all our world class industry leading facilities, superior funding and club support abailable to our manager.
They didn’t just beat us with a flukey last minute corner kick, they dominated our team from start to finish and we actually never looked like scoring.”
Arsenal had 59% possession to Saints’ 41%. Total shots 11 to 13. Shots on target 6 to 6. Corners 7 to 2. We made defensive errors and didn’t look convincing enough in the final thirds, but were not “dominated start to finish” by any semantic stretch of the verb “dominate”.
It is entirely your choice to thread together a narrative of failure and disenchantment regarding Arsenal’s performance and its coaching stuff, and leverage every single poor result — because it is almost always the poor results that fuel the apocalyptic predictions — to strengthen that narrative, but in terms of actual long-term pattern of performance and result is there really any objective demonstration of under-achievement?
We will see where we stand at the end of the season. Last season we had the chance of bringing in an established world class talent for the first time in many years and it is no coincidence that, coupled with excellence from a few of our much-villified young guns, we topped the league for months and won a trophy. This season we have improved the squad further, but yet to see our first eleven play together probably even once. Let us at least wait until the end of the season to pass verdicts …
DrF- what was the result and what was the score.
Where are southampton coming on the table now.
Where are we coming on the table now.
All the stats you can possible find wont alter the facts unless it too obvious and simple to discuss the actual facts..!
I apologise in advance if facts are no longer a worthwhile tool of measurement for analysing a football teams performance.
Cheers H! Fine report and post in general.
We were fucking dog shit. Hopefully that was the nadir of our season. If not, hold on to your hats, we wont have seen anything yet in the ugliness stakes.
It seems the debate here isn’t whether we were any good yesterday, whether we are missing a much needed defensive midfielder or whether injuries have sent us all over the place this season. We all agree on these points.
It seems the debate is whether it makes sense to inflate a single game (against an opponent who – hey, remember this – we actually beat a month or so back) so that it becomes utterly definitive, and pen long odes of praise and admiration to our conquerors and their flavour of the month manager that would make Homer (the poet, not the poster) blush.
We all know what the problems are. We all know that some of them are of our own making and some are not. We all know that we are in a fight for top four, not the title and that results are going to be up and down just now. Yes, we should expect more, but it is what it is at the minute, and treating each poor result as if it’s the end of the bloody world and wailing like a banshee about it is just tedious.
We have some sorting out to do. Yesterday was about as stretched as we’re likely to be, and as Martin points out, we will start to get some pretty handy players back now. Find some consistency, finish top four and address the squad issues either this month or in the summer – that’s the name of the game. If we don’t do those things then yes, a tantrum will be justified. Hell, I’ll join you in kicking one off.
Cannot be arsed to have a new debate about the manager every time we lose. Somewhere along the way it’s become dull and pointless – they’re not going to sack him, and conversely even when he does the things we all ask for his critics don’t back off. What’s the sense in having a shouting match about it? If you really cannot abide him then just sit tight and he’ll be gone soon enough, at which point I’m sure that performances like yesterday will cease to happen, it’ll rain ice cream and every day will be Xmas.
As I said after the West Ham match: there are going to be some ups and downs between now and May. We all know that. By all means, let’s discuss where we’re going wrong and share a dark joke or two on the down days, but let’s not lose the run of ourselves, eh?
COYG
Aussie: Why is it a FACT that we are in deep shit as a club going forward? Are we about to be relegated? Man United with all their debt didn’t make the Champions’ League after having a bad season and they still exist. Essentially, this doom and gloom about the club being in deep shit is hyperbolic nonsense – in my opinion.
As Arsene said in one of his press conferences – before him, he can’t remember the club consistently qualifying for the premier European club competition.
The issue is that, many Arsenal fans have been spoiled by the success that manifested under Wenger’s reign and as such, they think Arsenal have a god given right to finish in the top 4 and win everything. The fans who are making the most destructive noises are the same ones who were crying that we haven’t won anything for ………… years. As soon as we win the FA Cup, the goal post has been moved. In my opinion, it’s emotionally driven sensationalism, thus, lacking any type of logical reasoning and substance.
Impec- suggest you read TTG @60 and if you still think all is fine and dandy, then we have very different measurements of what defines deep shit and what describes a healthy football club.
Aussie: Actually, I read TTG @59 prior to posting my initial comment so no need to revisit that post. Nevertheless, I have to agree with you that we have very different measurements of a healthy football club. However, mine is definitely not based on hyperbolic sensationalism.
If Arsenal FC is not a healthy football club, then the entire football fraternity worldwide might as well just shut up shop and go home. It is the people who are pushing the monotonous, poisonous “Wenger Out Campaign” who are undermining the club and trying to get it into deep shit.
Be careful of what you wish for, as this agenda promotion, might just turn a very healthy club into Newcastle FC.
I thought I saw tears in Arsene Wenger’s eyes yesterday. It will be absurd to think anyone wants Arsenal to succeed more than he does, that he wouldn’t want to win the Premier and Champions Leagues. It’s a bit hard to understand why he didn’t finish his signings in the Summer (DM and CB). Fingers crossed for the january Window.
To be fair, our injury situation hasn’t improved, even seems to have worsened. Games will be as difficult as yesterday without a solid defensive midfield and the height of Giroud and Welbeck up front. The back five need to get their act together as they play more games. I just hope the lads pick themselves up and try to get a sustained run of wins as players return from injury.
Good write-up!
Aussie: By the way, I don’t think all is fine and dandy; that’s a prime example of the hyperbole to which I refer. Nevertheless, it’s not all doom and gloom “deep shit”either. Why does everything have to described or judged in extremes or polar opposites?
A very competent review. As an Australian gooner you get additional punishment in lost sleep. I could see we had no chance to win and went to bed at halftime .
Our only hope is to fill in the open gapes by bringing in quality, Arsene has learnt his lesson he should swallow his pride and buy quality, buying players is not like buying a loaf of bread ot has long term results. So he must simply invest in the future.
Some very good (and by that I mean measured and considered, not necessarily agreeing with every word) posts here from ttg, N7, Faustus, Trev and a few others.
Every team will have a shit day here and there. Even Chelsea with all their mega-million signings played like a pub team yesterday. It happens, the trick is to have as few of them as possible. We have had too many this season but despite all this we are still only three points off fourth and four off third so giving up at this point would be rather daft in my opinion.
Are injuries an excuse? Perhaps not. But they are certainly an explanation for a lot of our inconsistency this season. It is extremely difficult to build any sort of consistency when you always have to chop and change and come up with makeshift solutions. Like I have said many many times, fix the injuries and almost all our problems are sorted instantly.
Anyway. Breakfast awaits.
Impec- agree to disagree on our clubs current state of affairs.
Truly pointless and boring.
I will not think for one minute about newcastles failures ever becoming ours. That is the type of extreme fear mongering that is the only defence of those who continue to defend our failures over many years under arsene Wenger.
I will continue to look forward with hope rather then fear of failure and trust our clubs management team to replace wenger asap and look forward to maybe two new trophies in the next ten years.
That would be a huge step forward from where we are right now.
The only FACT anywhere is the Referees officiating in the EPL all need a good spanking (and some their bank accounts scrutinized ..my opinion!)
The rest is everyone’s enlightened (or not) opinion/s!
..and there be many excellent comments, enjoyed reading them too!
😀
Lars: the only small differences between us and chelsea you did seem to forget to add to your post @72 above is that chelsea dont play like a pub side every second game as they have been busy winning a heap of trophies in the last ten years and are currently leading the EPL and they have no injuries, while we have won a single FA cup and have enjoyed numerous 4th places and out team is completely crocked from front to back.
Just small facts, not important I guess….
Aussie, you seem to have stopped reading before you got to where I said “We have had too many this season”. Or where I said we have too many injuries and that we need to fix that. Yes, Chelsea have won stuff in the last ten years. Where did I say they haven’t?
But by all means, remind me again how many trophies Chelsea won last season and how many we won?
Mikkey: It looks as though loads of folks went to bed at half time, the picture quality of my stream improved considerably in the second half, pity about our performance.
However, Sunday is another day and we will all be going to the Ems anticipating a great cup tie and a comfortable win, that’s the nature of football fans.
Instead of wallowing in our current malaise let’s enjoy Maureen’s discomfort, it should keep us going for a day or two.
COYRs
No Striker played and No goals scored.
For me its that simple.
Lars- last season we won one trophy and chelsea won nil.
Who or what do you think is causing our injuires..
Aussie, I believe our injuries are cause by several things, each of which are not enough on their own to exaplain them. Bad luck is one bit, something in training being wrong is another, some of the players being injury prone a third and so on. I don’t think there is a silver bullet for our injuries, there are several small factors that we need to get right and therein lies the difficulty in correcting it, most likely.
@79
I can hazard a guess what’s causing our collective earache.
Some great posts above. You know who you are.
Nice discussion on the cyclothymic swings from heroes to zeroes on the basis of single results.
I still fail to understand how the ‘facts’ within a single game are a legitimate basis on which to rate a management tenure when the statistics of the entire tenure (including all the difficult years) when compared to the prior history of the club, are glibly ignored. The messiah awaited by those baying for Arsene’s head, must be one hell of a fella.
We gifted Southampton their goals yesterday and had several further shambolic moments which might have gifted them more. On the other hand we crafted several opportunities to take the lead or pull back the 1-0 deficit.
This with a midfield of Coquelin, Chambers and Santi. Who, looking at our squad at the start of the season, would have believed that we would have started a match against the team above us with that midfield? Not only have we lost first choice players, we have lost their backups too. Meanwhile several players are playing in suboptimal condition: Kos does not look 100% fit, nor does AOC and Alexis almost certainly needs a break.
We are still in the mix for top 4 and in the last 16 of the UCL despite a plague of injuries of biblical proportions. Hopefully injured players will return to boost us in the run in.
Believe.
Alright, Aussie, we all agree Arsenal are in crisis and will never get better until Arsene leaves, can we move on now & just look forward to the day he leaves without boring each other senseless in between? Thanks.
Morning all. I’m so privileged to be back at work and missing the cut and thrust of debate.
We lost, ergo “Wenger aht”. Shame we didn’t sack him while Pulis and Pardew were clearly available. Now who can we turn to?
The boss summed it up nicely- it was a self inflicted defeat. It truly was.
I have said this before and again i reiterate though it is purely coincidental. Woj Sczcseny is not a first choice goal keeper for a top club. If we consider Arsenal as one, then that gives the answer.
He has had good games and yes he ideally should have been the back up to a first choice GK. We all know how great Gk’s influence a season. All titles are won with a great defence and a great GK. For all the saves he does, he costs us far too much. I cannot believe his cockiness.
Per should retire, there is no two ways about it. His mind is off the game, he told it clearly that he felt he has done it all after the world cup. It was a huge mistake not to have brought a cb and it is haunting us big time. Per does not do the basics right and that was his biggest strength.
Wenger in, Wenger out makes no sense now. So if it is all his mistake, does that also account for players carelessness? he can send a team on to the pitch but he cannot make them play, can he????
Arsenal for me have regressed. I just feel that its a nice club, great bonding, talented players etc but there is no ruthlessness.
If it is war, then nice guys finish last.
I dont know who to blame and i really am tired with all that.
I dont care if we dont finish in the top four. I do not care what happens to anyone but all i need is for the players to realize that they are among the chosen few to be playing for a great club. I also want the boss not to accept that this is all we can do. I sense that he is accepting that we will be the best among the rest and the bigger teams are to powerful. It is not that boss, it is definitely not.
Aussie
I try to reflect a balanced view and I am certainly not complacent. I do think that like many here I am realistic and able to accept that we will not always see a season run smoothly.
I still find it unnecessary to replace Wenger but clearly in some respects he must up his game. But frankly the fashion in football to replace the manager even if the club is in a good or natural position is very much a knnejerk fashion exacerbated by social media.
Yes we have major injury problems- our main problem. Secondly we have a couple of weaknesses in the playing staff judged by the highest standards and for these reasons we are inconsistent. But we are at our best a very good team indeed- and nowhere near one in crisis. Not even close
My theory is something broke with Wenger and his team after the 8-2 scoreline at Old Trafford. Many heavy defeats since then.
Good idea cent..
That would be preferrable for all.
It would be a lot easier if it were not necessary to have to respond to posts quoting meaningless stats of how we were somehow better then southampton yesterday and how this last performance is just a simple “one off blip”.. or a “single unprecedented event”..
Just tryin to keep it real, factual and balanced 🙂
The worst thing about yesterday was that the manner of the defeat probably surprised nobody. Sterile in attack, suicidal in defence with errors schoolboys would be ashamed of.
Not the first time, won’t be the last.
Impec1 You need to wake up why do you not like to see a change in manager Defence has been a JOKE SEASON AFTER SEASON
7 years ago when you took over from George Graham who left you with a great team like Adams,Bould, and added T.Henry R.pires,Berkamp, who were class cannot beat anyone in the top 5 for the last few years getting hammered from them
We also need a world class goalkeeper Wojciech Szczesny is not good keep making the same mistake coming out of is goal, we need play
David Ospina
Seriously, does anybody know who is the current goalkeeping coach – is it still Gerry Peyton?
Who is counselling Ches on his inclination to go walkabout?
UTA.
Our heaviest defeat of the season is 2-0. You have to go back nine months to find one heavier.
Also, to my knowledge Impec1 has never managed Arsenal and neither he (nor Wenger, for that matter) took over from George Graham.
Oh Yeah I forgot Bruce Rioch came in then it was Wenger
i think this defeat is so crazy we need to do something at the defence line
Peyton is still goalkeeping coach I think, but you can’t really teach people to make good decisions. They’ve either got the ability to read the game and know when not to put themselves in the shit, in any position on the field, or they haven’t.
TTG – I also try to provide an equally balanced view of where I believe our team is at present.
I do agree we can be very a good team on our day.
However, is being a very good side on our rare best day enough……anymore.
Personally, I dont think that should be the extent of our clubs ambitions..and I do believe our football team is in a serious crisis because we are going backwards or at best stagnating from an ever-growing and ever increasing hungry pack who see us as wounded prey there for the taking.
if we no longer have ambition to win major trophies on a regular basis, then we are not in crisis, but I have not heard the club say our ambitions have ever been lowered from wining the major trophies.
I agree at best we are hanging on by our fingertips on the nirvana and saviour for Arsene being that Prized fourth spot, but it is not guaranteed or even remotely secure given the state of our football squad and our recent displays on the field as a team unit.
IMHO – I dont think we will finish in the top four and havent done for most of this season, because the facts on evidence show we are simply not a good enough team or consistent enough under wengers aging management style which is proving to be kosing its aura of invincibility.
Our injury and player management are in crisis and show no clear sign of a positive change.
Individually, we gave some quality, but our team balance is in crisis as we regularly look smaller, weaker, slower and softer then even lower level teams, let alone our appalling recent record against the top four sides.
Our team leadership is in crisis because one is an ageing injury prone warrior who has seen his best days, the other is the only 7 foot tall fullback who doesnt win headers and is the slowest player in the entire league bar none.
We have no senior role models or senior leaders on the pitch to even educate the younger players who they should be able rely on to pull us out of a tight spots as in years gone past.
Our recent results of one trophy in ten years is a crisis for a club of our previous high ambitions. If we dont expect to win shit on a regular basis anymore than again I agree we are not in crisis.
I believe we are in a crisis and will continue to slide backwards..if we dont make some serious changes from top to bottom and front to back…and yes it will take some of that cash pile that we do have….cause our academy and scouts aint gonaa do it alone.
I agree that arsene should only be judged at the end of the season, but he certainly has some big improvements to make happen in an ever shortening period.
The Wenger out Wenger in debate is such a non debate for me. Whatever side of the fence you sit on, or even on it for that matter, AW will not go before this season is over. If he goes at all. May I suggest that the debate as to his tenure is saved until at least then? In the meantime I would also suggest that we get behind whoever pulls on the famous shirt and those in charge. Let us all hope that January brings us belated Christmas presents rather than something from the bargain basement, end of line Sales.
Well said, Martin.
Martin, fair enough then, but at least as a compromise can we please “not” continue with Woj between the sticks any more this season.
He has had enough” alfumblies and alflappies ” for one season. How much can a koala bear…. Seriously
It is embarassing to watch a grown man slink into his own goal net and suck on his water bottle like a baby drinking warm milk with his blankie after calamatous goal no 1.
Drum banging done.
Apologies for the noise.
In off the post!!
If Ospina had actually been fit then you may well have seen him a lot more this season. No doubt he will play on Sunday. It will be interesting to see how he does and subsequently, who has the gloves on the following week??
Well in poacher. 🙂
Aussie, apart from yesterday can you please name the games where Szczesny has cost us points?
HNY to all. Still drop by the odd time. Don’t post so as to not to antagonise. Forum/bar would be way better if people acknowledged the crisis was almost 12 months old now, not just outcry after one bad outing. Things changed Feb 1 2014. No signings, no plan, no urgency. We finally lost our great club aura then and in the following weeks. Teams smell it now. Our win rate in this period is well under 50 per cent. It’s really all you need to know. Not good enough, not even near Top 4 form. FA Cup looms. If we’re knocked out I assume everybody here sees it as a disaster because it was such an important, prestigious, game changing trophy to win. Hope we win, don’t see it as critical myself but reaction here will be fascinating. The sad truth is many passionate fans are switching off. Real old timers too, in droves. Window is absolute last chance saloon. Let’s see some balls and gumption. COYG.
Doing a bit of catching up, great post in previous bar TTG.
Thanks for the review Holic, must of been hard, terrible performance yesterday, really bad day at the office.
*continues to read new drinks*
31Aussie
Homer , my post @12 is completely factual in every word, bar none.
No, no it wasn’t.
You really need to learn the difference between “Fact” and “Opinion”.
@scgooner
Happy new year!
I know what you mean: I’ll find your reaction to a cup defeat fascinating as well – will it be a relatively restrained punch of the air, or a full on Thierry Henry knee slide across the living room?
I thought there was an Amish cricket team on telly for a moment, then realised it was Hashim Amla. I hate falling asleep in the afternoons..
Lars, with full respect to your question, the guvnor and other holics, I believe I have had more than my fair share of air time on here tonight so I will politely defer your question until tomorrow and let others have their say.
I Look forward to providing you with the full long list of match dates and the match times of each of szcez’s ever growing portfolio of comical “in out in out shake it all about” bloopers that have cost us points..and wins.
@wengerknowsbest will have a field day with szcez this week…
In short summary however Lars, IMHO the kid doesn’t have the head, the heart or the internal confidence for the top level. He is a decent shot stopper (aka flappy and alfumbly…)
He is however very confident on fifa 14 xbox and after match interviews on arsenal player about how great our defence is and how much we/he has learnt…since his last calamity…
His most recent interview earlier this week was some of his best work.
🙂
H2H@106:
Happy to understand and learn which “opinions” @12 are not simple undiluted facts for all to see.
One team had the worst goalkeeping performance you will ever see in the top flight.
There’s on fact that is at least in question, Rafa Aussie
Excuse typos and strikethrough fail
One had speed, power, size and a physical presence in every position
One had an awesome DM who bossed the match
One had a decisive dominating GK who didn’t lol like fucking up.
One had a tall fast and strong forward line who always looked dangerous
One had decisive disciplined strong and tall back four
One had a small skinny and soft underbelly to the performance.
One team was very enjoyable to watch go about their business of completely dominating the other team.
One team had the worst goalkeeping performance you will ever see in the top flight.
All opinion.
Test
Phew.
Thought I’d knackered the blog with italics.
=======
Where was I??
Oh yeah……
All opinion.
@Cynic, to be fair Amla had always had that beard, so shouldn’t catch you by surprise. 🙂
When first Saqlain had reappeared — after a lengthy and random absentia typical of Pakistani cricket — with that beard it was quite startling … Then it was Inzy, Afridi, and one after another …
Thankfully one of my childhood heroes, Akram, hadn’t changed his looks. Not that I have anything against cricketers sporting wise-men-beard for any cause of their choice, but it does take away from the sex appeal.
And test cricket is so much about sex. The courting, the prolonged foreplay of getting to know the conditions, the delicate glides, the vivacious cuts and pulls.
That is why I hate T20s. It is almost pornographic in its staged super-abundance of merrymaking. 🙂
Check out the graph of Arsenal’s league positions since 1947:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_F.C.#mediaviewer/File:Arsenal_F.C._league_positions,_1947-2013.png
If that is “regression”, “sliding backwards”, “crisis” etc. etc. then I would shudder to think how an actual regression would be perceived as: world catastrophe?
Arsenal’s current UEFA ranking (which takes into account both domestic and CL/Europa performances):
http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/index.html
Arsenal was #7 last season, #8 this season. Look at where some of the European stalwarts are. I don’t see Milan or Juve supporters spitting out the dummy for their “backwards slide”.
Arsenal’s FA Cup winning history:
30….36………50…………..71…..79………93….98..02.03.05……14
One manager winning 5 of the 10 in the club’s entire history, and in the last 16 years.
“backwards slide”?
Hi all and a very happy new year to you.
It was a game of individual errors I think, which regardless of your opinion of AW he can not stop them from the touch line. Kos is just back and looked rusty which is no surprise and it has to be said the BFG has not been at the race`s at all so far this season. WC hangover still carryibg on maybe. These two were rocks last season, when both played and finished the game we were unbeaten for 30 odd games *alot to be said for that*
For me that was are best back 5 yesterday but as said to many mistakes from the defence and keeper.
Milan and Juve have won four league titles between them since Arsenal last won the league, Dr F, five if you count the one Milan won the year we last won the Prem.
Neither of those sides could be described as in decline, or perhaps more relevantly, stagnant.
UEFA rankings mean nothing.
Looks like Podolski is gone incidentally.
Thanks N7 @92.
Michael Reynolds @90: Perhaps, you should wake up before typing such incomprehensible drivel.
Nice stats Dr Faustus from 118-120.
The league position graph @118 in particular demonstrates what a difference our current coach has made to the club, even over the last few ‘barren’ years. No brainer really.
in a democracy everyone is entitled to their opinion even the cortically challenged. Fortunately the club is not run as a democracy or, over the past 6-8 years we would have hired and fired Owen Coyle, David Moyes, Michael Laudrup, Roberto Martinez and Jurgen Klopp. I think the graph would have looked somewhat different over that period.
Of course, the on-water walking messiah, Modifica Per Modificare -L’amor would have had us winning the treble every season.
The new Messiah is Ronald Koeman Bath.the others were false prophets but we didn’t know that at the time .
He continues your list and there will be others. If only we’d snapped them up how much stronger we would be
Incidentally the man who approached Wenger hails from Lymington that well known Gooner hotbed very close to Southampton. Perhaps horror of horrors Wenger was telling the truth after all.
“Per, give me your hand, I’m going to try to pull you out from under the bus. That’s a lad, easy does it… Now let’s pull out Woj, he’s struggling to break free.” Per and Abb rescue Woj, then have a good cry. 🙁
Holic, Thank heavens you have always had the composure, not to outright slate our players. For those like me, (and I know who you are), it means the world to us. xx
#125, appears he was an Arsenal fan according to this bbc report.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-30656674
Hey.
There’s only one H2H.
😉
The other H2H @ 125.
That is of course what you would expect Southampton to say lest they be accused of failing to control their own fans! Also I no longer regard the BBC as the most objective commentators where Arsenal are concerned! He may be a Hampshire based Gooner but I’m still to be convinced!
Lot of rumours among the Twitterati about Sissokho. A Newcastle friend who travels from Kent to see them ( !) every week says l’Equipe say talks have started between the clubs. He has a very low opinion of Ashley and is convinced it is true. Apparently they bought him for £2m.
They have sold Carroll,Ba and Cabaye in previous January windows without replacing them. Maybe this might explain Pardew’s departure?
Cynic @ 122: You are right. But in that time those two clubs have had some horrid years as well. Milan since Ancelotti left has been sliding down the league table and finished multiple few seasons outside CL place. Juve’s travails are well known, scandals and all, and even though they are now back being league favorites, in their stomping ground of European football they are not remotely close to being a favorite. The point is that among all of these their loyal fan bases didn’t throw tantrum every time they lost a game or had one or four seasons to forget.
Imagine Arsenal finishing at 7th or 8th, given the wailing (not from you) after a relatively poor start to the season when we are still just 4 points off #3, I am worried some would actually cause harm to themselves. You say UEFA coefficient doesn’t mean anything? I kind of agree (but not fully, as it helps to keep us seeded), but if Arsenal were to drop out of top 10 I am sure we would not hear the end of it.
One can have ambition and a perspective at the same time. One can hope more from the club and yet recognize its consistency and achievements at the same time. It is possible that misery-land is where one finds his or her natural psychological habitat, but that doesn’t excuse or explain the relentless barrage of negativity around the club that one apparently supports. It is a sport, the general engagement should be that of joy and entertainment. Especially at the beginning of a new year!
That reminds me: Happy New Year everyone! May 2015 bring joy and prosperity to you and yours, irrespective of how Arsenal’s season unfolds.
Cheers Doctor F. And the same to your good self.
Cheers Esso.
Yippee.. 3 points off 4th…
In other words for us simpletons – that would be 6th and going backwards..
I am sure there will be some mystical stat out soon showing how 6th is actually 2nd in the new age modern sporting fans world.
Same to you Dr.F
Aussie,
Someone said its a marathon not a sprint!
So Poldi is off to Inter, oh well.
Agree TTG :
We are at the 21k mark an aging coach, out of date physios, poor race data, aging legs, and fatigue and cramp are setting in..
Might be a long last 21k…
we laid down our arms at st. mary’s (spot on, holic).
now let’s lay down our alms on the transfer market, and buy us a coupla playas…
Cheers Dr.Faustus.
Respect your opinion @55 and I even agree about Wanayama’s clumsiness.
However the question was is there an So’ton player who might improve this Arsenal squad and I stand by what I said that Wanayama has a physical presence that our midfield lack and will be useful to us. Not ideal, but useful.
The same can be said about Toby Alberveildt or whatever his name is. Skilfull and athletic player, with decent technique and work rate that can cover different positions on the pitch. On top of that So’ton got him for free. Would have been a decent option for us having in mind all our injuries at the back:-)
As for Schneiderlein, he is one of the most intelligent players in the PL with great defensive and tacktical abilities, positional awareness, passing range, fighting spirit and perfect shoting. Would love him at Arsenal, great player.
As for Mane or Clyne, both are decent players but I feel that they arent better than what we have in this position on the pitch.
Won’t say that these are players that we need or that I would choose or prefer I am in charge (except Schneiderlin of course), but will say once again that these are the So’ton players that will certainly improve the Arsenal squad we have at the moment.
And before I forget, if I have to chose, I would probably have Forster instead of Woj. Forster had couple of impresssive seasons for Celtic and he proves this year that he is a PL quality as well and is known as no nonsence keeper.
Not a fan of Woj myself, sorry. Loved him in the first season, so I was able to forgive him the mistakes. I support him like I do with everyone that wear the Arsenal jersey and but I am not convinced by him at all. Hope he proves me wrong.
And lurky knocks it out of the park….
Lurky, am with you on Wanyama. Imagine having him and a Schneiderlin behind an ozil. Now that would be great, bar injuring of course. Can’t trust players to stay injury free with our club. Don’t know what would happen during this window, but I hope for the best.
I still don’t know what is Chambers best position. I hope we can find his right position and leave him there. I think the fact that he has been moved around so much at such a young age is affecting him real bad.
Aussie
Truly pointless and boring.
Yep I agree.
the new age modern sporting fans
Well, that’s pretty much you down to a T, isn’t it.
Sorry, I’ll agree that NYD’s game was a pretty poor performance, scratch that, we were terrible. But shit like that happens, it’s the nature of the game. If you think that we are on a downward spiral then you know NOTHING about Arsenal. Sweet FA.
I was born in the late 60’s and went to games from the age of 6, we were mediocre. All we had were a few appearances in Cup Finals, we were boring boring Arsenal. Top 4? no. Top European nights? Not many.
Our success has come at a price, and that price is that it has attracted a new batch of fans, I use the word fans, because that’s what they are, fans, not supporters, there is a major difference. The Irony, that will be lost on many, is that they have been lured to our club due to the vision, hard work and success of one man. The very man that you are blaming now that everything is not the way that you think it should be. Like a spoilt child you want more, more, more.
Don’t get me wrong, I too think he has made mistakes, but pissing and bitching about every hiccup helps nothing. You want a new manager? OK who? Bring a constructive arguement, a solution, anything other then the same piss poor “facts”.
This ‘backwards slide’ business is only from the perspective of gooners who jumped on the bandwagon with AW’s double winning side of 1998. Anyone with a longer perspective has seen far worse times than today’s and for lengthier periods. By any rational view the last decade represents the third best period in our history following the early Wenger years and the 1930s.
The debate about AW’s sacking is plain ludicrous. He has never terminated a contract early in his career and won’t be ruining that record just to satisfy a few hotheads. And even if he offered to resign the board would never accept it. It’s NOT going to happen, so ffs stfu about it.
Öskar
*Standing ovation for H2H*
*Throws garlands of flowers at Oskar*
*Wild applause for both*
Wanyama has the look of another Alex Song, Lurky … a substantial presence and fearless, but also a sight too liable to give away frees in dangerous (for us) positions while picking up regular yellows and stymied for much of every game risking a second.
Schneiderlin otoh is much more of an Arsenal ‘type’. But the only other Soton player I’d crave would be Forster, and that’s unlikely to happen, although another addition to AW’s England squad would be something of a coup.
Öskar
I would spend a week trapped in a lift with Aussie after a heavy defeat if it meant getting Schneiderlin in an Arsenal shirt this month.
Don’t see it happening though. Maybe in the summer…
Just doing our best to emulate your perspicacious postings, N7. 😉
Öskar
Applauds N7’s standing ovation for H2H and garland for Oskar. In a nutshell there gentlemen.
A bottle of HP18 and a bottle of Highland Spring sans gas on the bar for you three fine gentlemen. Slainte.
I’ll join the cheers for H2H, Oskar, N7 and bath.
Aussie,
You really don’t help your own cause with the lists published after each match.
Every win is greeted with a list of around ten attributes of any hard working, successful side.
Every defeat sees the same list repeated with the word “not” inserted in each attribute. These failings are then all blamed on Arsene Wenger, the same manager responsible for the win achieved three days before, or after.
And if you’re going to blame him for every defeat then you have to credit him with every success.
That would be a bridge too far, eh ?
Nice Post H2H.
Ttg:
Auclair said some weeks back that the interest in Sissoko is very real and he is one of the very few sources that I would be inclined to trust. As such, I’ve found myself watching the Newcastle games with increasing interest. I believe he’d be a great signing. Though he’s not technically the best of players and his final touch can be poor at times, he would bring an attribute to our midfield that we’ve been missing for some time: power. He’s got great stamina and physical presence. He always seems to have a powerful impact in every match.
And while we might also be in the hunt for a CB, I very firmly believe that we need a top class striker too. We may have to wait until the summer to see that happen though.
Happy NY to all the holics. And special gratitude to the man who makes it all happen. A happy and healthy New Year Maestro!
If the Poldi deal is all but done please tell me we have someone lined up to come in??? We can’t keep blaming too many injuries on one hand, and then let experienced internationals leave and not replace them? Surely we have learnt that lesson by now???
Applauds everyone for applauding.
🙂
Joe,
I really wonder whether the very early departure in this window of Podolski to Inter Milan, doesn’t mean that a replacement isn’t already lined up.
It would be strange to ship him out with Welbeck injured, Walcott still far from back, Sanogo, well, just being Sanogo and Campbell desperately short of minutes under the belt.
Sorry about the loop of double negatives I seem to have got stuck in above – i hope it all meant what it was meant to – oh, here we go again !
Just let me know if it didn’t.
If you do.
Cheers. 😉
I too applaud all those who deserve it for some great posts. As trendy people say H2H and OTD nailed it – I’ve been around supporting since 1958 and I would have loved the degree of success we are currently having. ( I was very young in 1958).
Joe
I hadn’t heard Auclair on Sissoko but my Geordie mate who hates Ashley and will be the first suspect if Ashley is found at the bottom of a swimming pool with a knife between the shoulder blades is absolutely convinced it’s a done deal.
I guess if you’re owned by Ashley , Silent Stan doesn’t look so bad but Ashley has his own hair. It makes sense if you know that Wenger doesn’t believe in strict DMs . I’d join N7 in the lift with Aussie if we got Scheiderlin but it might be a little crowded! Can’t see We get doing more than two deals. I’m still not certain we will do any but with our notional forward options I think he will stick. I guess Poldi going suggests Campbell will stay
Agreed Trev (hopefully).
The FA match with Hull is a Must Win for many reasons .
Afterwards , it will be much easier with Giroud , Wellbeck , Ramsey , Ozil , Walcott coming back . We will be faced with l’embarras du choix , who will play the coming weekend .
I am convinced AW is the solution for Arsenal problems . Arsenal has a system , a fairly complicated system with Youth , Home Grown meshed up with Experienced . Changing coach will create huge problem as new coach will want his own system , not necessarily a better system .
Hi Trev,
Happy NY mate. Hope you enjoyed the break.
I really don’t know whats going on with Podolski any more than anyone else, but if he goes, I will be very happy to see the back of him. He’s a wonderfully talented player, but he’s a player that just doesn’t work enough. And y’know I’ve always felt the very same way about Theo. Welbz and Sanchez have changed what is now expected of players up front. They really put in a shift every single time they play. And Oxlade, for example, is now working harder as a result. Expectations have heightened. Im not so sure Theo or Poldi can “change” their game in this regard.
I feel ordinarily that Wenger would genuinely prefer to keep the primary group together and make as few changes as possible in January. Change in January, when your in the middle of a league campaign, needs to be managed very carefully. The changes that you make must be positive and provide you with immediate strength and flexibility. Which is why, ideally, I think Wenger would like to make one or maybe two additions to the existing panel at most, and preferably with players who already play in the PL.
Having said that, I am very conscious that this is Wengers last contract with the club and I believe that the change in playing style over the past 6/7 years (when we have opted for a more possession based style rather than a counter attacking style with speed “ala the invincibles” because the former is need to be successful in Europe) has meant that Wenger has is not “taking chances” with the players he’s recruiting. This is his last chance to win Old Big Ears and all the players he has added to date have been done with precision and consideration. So, if the chance of signing someone like Cavani arises, I think he’ll take that. But I don’t think it’ll happen in January. I see Welbeck becoming more of an option on the wing.
Trev.
Not. Confused, that is.
😉
What’s this about an Aussie lift? 🙂
Someone said its a marathon not a Snickers!
And so say all of us
😉
Ttg:
I think the issue with Schneiderlin is twofold:
1. I think his cost (25m +) is severely disproportionate to his quality. He is a DCM only.
2. I think Wenger is right when he says that midfielders need to be able to play in attacking and defensive roles. Schneiderlin is one sided whereas someone like Sissoko can play both roles. More versatile. More powerful. Cheaper too.
The more versatility you have with players, the better options you have.
Last night in a drunken frenzy I called the Chelsea manager the biggest cunt in the world. I apologize to any I may have offended by this statement. He is not the biggest cunt in the world. That title belongs to John Terry. The Chelsea manager is only the second biggest cunt in the world, but I do have to acknowledge the work he has done to try and wrestle the top title from Mr. Terry.
Joe … Your 2 above is why I have always preferred two speedy midfielders in front of the CDs in preference to one DMF. Two players such as Jack and Rambo who are quick enough to intercept opponents before they get to our central defence and skilled enough to kick off attacks and support the striker/s. In the old days we called them half-backs.
I’ve never understood why a fifth player needs to be tied up solely in defence when two box to box players provide the same cover and offer better options in attack.
Öskar
Oskar @ 162: The kind of role YaYa or Cabaye or Pirlo or Matic or Busquets (a cheat he may be, but he is an excellent and a very underrated player) or Arteta plays for us is neither one of the two speedy midfielders role you are espousing nor the crunching DMF role that has now been rendered obsolete (at least for the time being, these things come and go in circles). Their biggest strengths are the ability to read the game and control the tempo accordingly, to choose the right passing options and to make themselves available as both the cover against counter-attacks as well as quick outlets for springing a counter-attack.
It has become quite a specialized role, combining the need for positional awareness, technical abilities and fitness (not in terms of running very fast, but the constant horizontal movements and ability to evade high press). The reason is the effective high press that most teams are now capable of — fitness in football has increased in leaps and bounds, and in his latest interview in the Arsenal magazine Arsene talks how the requirements of high athleticism are now putting some talented ball-players off the top level — and the well-drilled abilities to play quick passing triangles to create a vertical chain and move opposition players around without surrounding possession (even WHU is now attempting that sometimes, and no wonder Song who learnt the basics of this from one of the modern masters in coaching this style is enjoying such a success with them).
Jack is actually a very good athlete, a good passer and an excellent dribbler. But his game reading is poor. He doesn’t see off-the-ball movements of oppositions and he is also a little erratic in decision making under pressure partly because of bravado and partly because of inexperience. Rambo’s biggest strengths are the physicality — the relentless running and chasing and tackling — and a superb forward runs into the box, and when he is fully confident the finishing is built on those qualities. But he lacks the passing accuracy, especially in tight situations, to play this role consistently. Also he is too much of a confidence player and when things are not going well prone to make basic mistakes, it is an issue that he will learn to improve over time but right now he is not ready to be a central “reader” in the MF.
Until we get someone new, Arteta (who re-learnt this position after playing majority of his career as #10 or box-to-box) is the best we have. Given his age and the relative frequency of innocuous knocks turning into major disruptions we may not get too much from him this season. But when he is playing, especially playing well, our midfield has a much better structure and we control the center of the pitch both in terms of possession as well as creativity.
Trev: just calling the teams and wengers on field performance as I see it match by match.
I would be more than happy to call us winners even when we lose from here on if the actual Results are too upsetting.
H2H: I am sorry that I was not handed the manual for how to be such a role model wenger supporter as you.
Just occasionally you should check in and see how the actual team are doing. Unkike wenger, they are doing shit.
However, you will pleased to know that Wenger is doing fine and has been well looked after by the club.
He hasnt been doin it for free in case you are confused on that point.
He does actually pull a decent wage.
Sadly we’ve only seen glimpses of the real Jack and Rambo in recent years. Neither seems able to stay fit long enough to get into a rhythm and become the force they promised to be. I’m pretty sure this is the pairing AW would like to have in front of the CDs, moving the ball on to Özilla and Theo on the wings, Alexis in the hole and OG up front. When did we last see anything resembling that formation all fit at the same time?
This is why it wouldn’t surprise me to see AW sign another creative midfielder and striker as well as a CD cover … all before a recognised DMF.
Öskar
My last was in reply to Dr F #163.
Öskar
Oskar: so you are not keen on wanyama, but ok with jack in the heart of our midfield.
What exactly is it about wanyama you dont like over jack.
His physical presence, his power, his speed, his work ethic or his above average skills for a big unit.
Too many yellow cards from actually stopping plays that eventuate in goals.
I seem to remember along with jack, you were a big fan of Woj in between the sticks.
As I said in #146, Aussie … “Wanyama has the look of another Alex Song … a substantial presence and fearless, but also a sight too liable to give away frees in dangerous (for us) positions while picking up regular yellows and so stymied for much of every game risking a second.”
Jack is faster, more skilful and has the full confidence of AW. He hasn’t played at anything like his best since his long-term injury, but we live in hope of a full recovery eventually. However I am also on record as suggesting none of Rambo, Jack or Theo may ever completely shake off their susceptibility to injuries, so perhaps we should look to replace all of them permanently. But AW has shown remarkable faith in not just them but others of our walking wounded (notably Diaby) and I respect his judgement in all things. All things that he is infinitely closer to than we are that is.
Öskar
Ebube @ 167/169,
If I understand you correctly, an a bil t 4 Wenger to red d txt spk is 2 b need more dan n e ting.
Am I right?
UTA.
Oskar, Arsene’s loyalty to chronically injured players is admirable, but does he not also have an even greater loyalty to the broader football club and fans who pay his enormous salary while we support the likes of the diaby’s in recoveries that just never really happen.
You could also add Kieran Gibbs, OX and artetta to that list and a high proportion of arsenal academy players..Crocked under his watch.
Arsene’s direct support and direct negligence in addressing Our injury crisis is a significant part of why our club is going backwards in conjunction with the ” I respect his judgement in all things”..syndrome…
We truly never learn…from our repeated errors..
Can’t wait to hear why we didn’t need Poldi during our injury crisis. Surely we could do with our our awesome left footed World Cup winning German international goal scoring machine when he was allowed to play.
I suspect poldi told Arsene what he thought of him just like RVp and cesc and TV5 and song and the ever growing list of ex great players we actually need.
Edube in the words of MC Hammer: Stop – Grammar time!
Dis blog is de mutts nutz.
Almost as gd as de Groave.
Aussie, now you are hallucinating, mate. Have a chill pill.
Zico
Nuffink is as gd as De Groave .
Orl propah Gooners go dere for de latest action.
Wenger Aht!
@176- we will see what the second half of this marathon brings.
We got nothin left in the tank and no cards up our sleeve.
Such a shame for a club like ours..
Hope I am wrong, but doubt it this season.
So, Aussie, how about that long list of all the games this seasonwhere Szczesny has cost us points? You promised to have it ready for us all today.
The rumour I heard is that Podolski discovered the whereabouts of Arsene’s secret haul of Nazi gold and threatened to expose him. He also had a file on Wenger’s terrible negligence, and CCTV footage of the manager eating babies.
Apparently he was dragged out of his bed at night by masked men wearing long thermal coats, had a hood thrown over his head and next thing he knew he was landing in Milan airport. Ignore the Inter scarf and the welcoming fans – they were photoshopped in later. He’s actually got his hands up because of the gun jabbing the small of his back, and if you look closely you can see the fear in his eyes.
It’s all very similar to that time Andre Santos caught Wenger stealing merchandise from the club shop.
Our only hope now is Joel Campbell. Wenger’s already got to the rest of them.
If anyone wants to receive further updates then don’t forget to grab a pamphlet and a tinfoil hat on the way out.
Hmmm. It appears that I have been lumped with the ‘Wenger Out’ brigade. Did you all really read my post?
Wenger is not going anywhere; but there is little to suggest that the team is going to progress with Wenger at the helm. We are once again in a dogfight for fourth, which now seems to be our default position. Me indicating this isn’t a call for Klopp or Simeone.
The team’s penchant for self destructiveness, inconsistency, and injuries has now becoming ingrained. The buck stops with the manager. It is clear we have aspirations of being among Europe’s elite – do any of you Wenger supporters anticipate this will happen if this state of affairs continues? What evidence is there to suggest that we are moving towards that goal?
Wenger’s record and value to this club CANNOT be questioned. It is pointless, however, to tar and feather those who doubt his current ability to take the team to another level after long years of consolidation.
Lars, you are right, I do owe you that, but to be honest I can’t be bothered…because I am even starting to bore myself…
I think I will take the simple advice from Bath @176 so I can try to enjoy my team go round each week, even as they stand now.
My opinions of each match, both the Good and the bad are clearly on record here, including my thoughts on szcez.
I am thankful to Holic for allowing me as a single Arssnal supporter the simple opportunity to have my say…and I have done that to death I am sure.
I have full respect for all opinions on here and I have learnt the most about the Arsenal and our team from those on here that I have disagreed with the most..
I love the Arsenal which is why I continue to read all on here win, lose or draw, agree or disagree…
It is the best and only arsenal bar around, bar none, for me, just as arsenal are the best team going round when at our best. I can’t keep away from this joint even if I tried as I am a fully addicted Holic.
I am also truly disapointed at what I see is happening to my club and our team.. and don’t enjoy seeing us not being anywhere near the best we can be as Steve T so rightly said way back in here…
As suggested by N7 (a few times now), I will support the team as it stands right now and see how it all pans out for the rest of the season and future ahead.
I will try to enjoy reading and listening more to others on here rather then spouting off as much as I have since the southampton.
@Aussie 179…I feel your pain. It was only early this season that I came to the conclusion that we are not likely to regain past glories with our beloved manager. You are not alone.
Gents
Just to say I think there’s room for a spectrum of views on here, but it’s all in how they’re expressed.
There are regulars who are extremely critical of the manager, including some who outright want him gone. No problem with that.
The problems arise when individual results are treated as some sort of straw that breaks the camel’s back, long rants are embarked upon and those who do not agree are painted as one-eyed Wenger loyalists who cannot see the wood for the trees.
Personally, I think there’s room to meet in the middle just now: this has been a bad season so far, no doubt. But in the last 18 months we’ve started making major signings for the first time in a decade and won proper silverware for the first time in a decade. There’s cause for both optimism and concern. Neither extreme of the argument seems viable, to me.
The perverse thing is that when people are in the bar yelling about what a disgrace Wenger is it actually makes others less likely to voice their own concerns, because it polarises the debate. The reality is much more complex than “he’s the greatest man who ever lived/he’s a fossil who wants sacking”. A bit of restraint creates a much healthier forum for everyone.
For me, part of being in a group of supporters is that you cheer each other up a bit after a bad result. That doesn’t mean blind, hopeless sunnysiderism, it means having your moan, but then moving on to a black joke or two and hoping for better things. If it’s just a bunch of people in a bar bellowing about how shit everything is for three days after a game then I’m not sure what anyone is really getting it of it, beyond free therapy and a self-generating spiral of anger and discontent. If we’re going to moan, let’s at least try to have a laugh while we do it.
There are a million places to go on the web where you can happily slag off Arsene Wenger in text speak all day long, and get a pat on the back for it. You can rant and rave and others will join in and the fires of righteous indignation will burn long into the night. I don’t think that’s ever been the whole vibe in here, not because of Wenger loyalism, but because the locals value a good pun or a daft joke as much as a cutting insight into everything that’s wrong with the club.
Anyway, that’s my take. Beyond that, I think the time for proper judgement is May and that there will be other bad results between here and there (how’s that for negativity?), because if the last few years teach us anything it’s that this is a side with a bad result in it. But let’s see where we end up – in 2006 we came within a dodgy lasagna of finishing outside the top four and yet we nearly won the champions league. It’s a funny old game and all that.
Oh, and one thing I can say with some certainty: those who want Wenger out – you don’t have too much longer to wait now, and nothing that’s written in here will hasten his end.
COYG
Well said NZ Gooner. And for the record, I do NOT want Wenger out. Sadly, I don’t think he can take us to a higher level of achievement. But I would love for the old dog to prove me wrong. Nothing would make me happier.
Seems a lot of arguments between fans and supporters, being born in 1971 I was left with no option but to support Arsenal *joke by the way* and went to my first game in 1976 with my dad. Dose this make me more passionate then the next guy ? No it dosent !!
On this site there are supporters who were standing in Highbury 15-20 years before I went to my first game. Would I class them as better supporters ? No I wouldnt !!
The best thing about this site is that everyone has a opinion and quite often it is not shared by everyone. Am I frustrated by my teams performances this season, of course I am. We have struggled to put out a defence with the same players in it for more than two weeks and that does not build confidence at the back. When we think back to the best defensive line up in the history of football we think of Seaman,Dixon,Adams,Bould and Winterburn. Ask yourself how many times was that rotated ? Then you will have your answer.
We have struggled at the back this season everyone must agree to that, TV leaving and no replacement brought in has to be classed as a over sight by AW im sure we will all agree to that too. However to bemoan the whole team and manager with pitch forks seems a tad OTT.
Plenty of older supporters on this site will gladly tell you what used to pass as football at Highbury and by god it wasnt pretty to watch. So this season hasnt panned out as we would have liked and its not even over, Im guessing AW would agree that so far this season things havent gone to plan.
Im sure he will turn it around and get the guys back to thier best soon.
Nice put, N7.
-nice
+nicely
doh!
Injuries willing of course !!!!
Noice 😉
It’s a link to Der Sturmer, but I love features like this one
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2288458/Footballs-golden-years-From-Hampden-The-Dell–.html
* awards medal to N7 *
for an excellent post but mainly for having the patience to say it all ….. again …… and again …… and ag …….
Puns and daft jokes, eh ? Must try that sometime. 😉
Arsenal1971 – also spot on. Only in my opinion, of course. 😉
To take up one point from N7’s post above about the polarisation of debate –
There is plenty to criticise this season, I think, in terms of the manager’s performance. For example, the done-to-death failure to sign another centre back in the summer; the persistence with Sanogo; the failure to sign a powerful, defensive presence in midfield; the failure to rotate some players, when it was possible, before they all got injured (TR7 springs to mind); the timing and nature of some of the substitutions.
I think I could fairly safely say that many of the old regulars and veterans in the bar would agree with most of that.
The thing is, it is only my opinion. Just as many will disagree and some will not even care. And like everybody else, I’m not privy to the exact reasons why all these things happened – or didn’t, as the case may be.
For example, Monreal has grown very nicely into the role of backup centre half. Did I think that was a good plan at the beginning of the season ? Certainly not, but I’m very surprised at how well he’s done there. Maybe there was a top notch centre back on the way but the deal fell through at the last minute.
Again, for example, how many people know that Sergio Ramos was due to join us ? I do, because I treat the estate agent who had arranged his accommodation all ready for his arrival, but on the day he was due to join we were gazumped by Real Madrid.
And these things are the reasons why, when people abuse and slag off Arsene Wenger, my opinions become a bit polarised too.
He may be older, he may not be as adaptable, for all I know he may not have quite the same hunger for success as he did in his forties.
But he has done such a fantastic job for this club, stayed so loyal at a time when he could have gone literally anywhere, that I actually take offence on his behalf when people come and slag him off after every setback.
He has been the brightest, most revolutionary manager the game in this country, at least, has seen – certainly, again at least, since Herbert Chapman. And despite the “nine years without a trophy”, if you compare his achievements pound for pound, or euro for euro, with any other club, very probably the most successful too.
He can drive you mad with his stubbornness, barmy with the public protection of his under-performing players, and nuts at his refusal to “do enough” in the transfer market.
But no thinking person can accuse him of not caring or fail to see how he is hurt by defeat.
If he publicly moaned a bit more about the constant injuries and disruption he has to contend with, he might earn himself a bit more grace with his accusers. That, however, is not his style.
So criticise respectfully away and I’ll join you. But leave me out of the abuse and accusation.
I may be one of the first to criticise wojo. He is a decent gk no doubt. But a club like arsenal should bring in better gk if we have the aspiration to win major trophies. The great David seaman once said a great gk could win you 15 points a season. I am afraid the point contribution from wojo is negative.
Excellent observations Arsenal1971.
Another good one Trev.
http://instagram.com/p/xZNP7KOJ3N/
———-
Thank you! You shall be missed!
:~~~
Thank you Trev and Bath
Just a point about Monreal
*Monreal has grown very nicely into the role of backup centre half*
Now this is a player I have not rated at LB at all, again my opinion :). However it must be said that when he has paired BFG in defence you cant really lay any major errors at his feet, I will also go on to say that out of the two of them he has been the better player on the day. I still think the WC is affecting Per and he needs a rest but with injuries that has not been possible.
This humble pie dosent taste as nice as you would think.
Aussie, am with you bro. I have decided not to stress myself anymore. All I do now is hope and pray for the best and enjoy the occasional good performances by the team.
Arsenal1971@196, but Per didn’t play but two matches. So why is he having such a season? Other players that played in the World Cup seems to be doing good. If we can get a CB, I think he would be the one dropped to 3rd choice.
Trev nails it @191.
Shoots
Get in there!
Top stuff, Trev – nail on head.
Superb Post Trev.
Ooh, didn’t even see I laid it on a plate there. Great awareness in front of the net shown by N7 here, a real fox in the box goal!
Thanks fellas.
Great posts recently particularly by N7 and Trev.
It is extraordinary how angst filled supporting Arsenal has become. I think N7 hit the nail on the head when he underlined that the value of corresponding with fellow supporters is in helping each other to enjoy success and put failure into perspective…and its that word perspective that is missing from such a lot of what is said on Arsenal boards.
If you asked all the supporters of the clubs in the PL would they like Arsene Wenger to manage their club I suspect that maybe only three would have a majority against the idea. I’m pretty certain he would be welcomed at almost any other club in the world such is the respect for what he has done. But a prophet is without honour in his own country as the Good Book says and while Wenger is by no means without honour we have a hugely divided fan base, mainly of whom have only ‘ supported’ Arsenal during Wenger’s tenure . I put supported in italics because what constitutes support, the aggression, the unrealistic expectations , the vicious reaction to fellow supporters is a different definition of what I believe support should be.
That’s why this board is precious and why Holic does such a great job in ensuring it remains a place where real supporters can express a range of emotions. Those who backdrink regularly might note that while I don’t want Wenger sacked and believe he has done a remarkable job, it has become a far from perfect one. I hope we can debate stuff pertaining to the Arsenal universe that doesn’t always hark back to a theme that is driving us all insane and which at the end of the day is a situation that is highly unlikely to change in the near future. I could understand the intensity and ferocity if we were in deep crisis but this really isn’t that and I don’t think with Wenger in charge it ever will be.
SanAntonioGooner@198
I know Per only played 2 matches but still you have to admit that training and being there in that heat is different from laying on a beach for 2-3 weeks with drinks with umbrella`s.
Per and Kos were great last year and the BFG has admitted he isnt happy with his form and that he is feeling tired and this has shown in his performances.
If we brought another CB I do agree that he would proberly be pushed down to 3rd choice but there again with injuries Im sure he would have still played as much as we wouldnt have had to call upon Chambers, Monreal and Deaubchy as much to play CB. *im sure thats not how you spell that*
Per had formed a partnership with Kos and without him there it could be argued some of Per`s defensive frailaties have been shown up as his understanding isnt the same with any of the other 3. His form has been poor and once Kos is back to full match fitness im sure the pairing will be back to there best.
We do need another CB and that is for sure.
Excellent report, but I have questions.
Does Wenger not see the obvious?
Is there no one on the board that the fans @”union” can approach on the board to elicit a response?
Has Wenger become bigger than OUR ARSENAL?
I am not of the “WENGER OUT” persuasion but I feel the need for centre-halves and DM is quite obvious and Wenger should be made to address that regardless of his denial. The fact that we keep Diaby on the payroll in hope that he might come good in Defensive midfield is ridiculous.
Wenger produces nowadays Arsenal teams that can maybe compete, we use to have ARSENAL sides that were made to DOMINATE…. Wenger we trust…. but #give us our ARSENAL BACK
#130, just why on earth would a Saints supporter risk losing his season ticket to yell at an opposing team’s manager when his team are 2-0 up?
It has been a funny few weeks and those who know me know I have been wondering about continuing the blog or not. Today shows why it will go on. Some fabulous posts above, particularly Trev and N7.
Thank you all. It is you that makes this place with a remarkable combination of a ladle of common sense, a pinch of respect, and a tablespoonful of insanity. 😉
Malo@182
You own a few Camry and racing against the Porches and the Ferrari . You keep loosing and your conclusion is your driver ,this bloody Arsene, need to be changed .
No ! , you need to buy Porches and Ferrari to race against the Porches and Ferrari and to have a chance to be successful .
No matter the rhetoric , Arsenal doesn’t have the financial to pay 200K / week salary for the like of Aguerro and Yaya Toure . And the all thing is getting ridiculous , where is a proper football club ??
We , football fans around the world , we never have a chance to attend an Arsenal match and yet we love this football club because it has something of a football club we know since our childhood .
Dear Goonerholic ,
You must keep going on , Doctor Order , for your health in your old age and for us all . Just think how miserable we are without you .
Mr Holic
I for one am delighted you have decided to continue. Best wishs for the new year barman.
#210,
Kroenke & Wife = 10.4 Billion
Usmanov = 15 Billion
Abramovich = 9.3 Billion
Harlem@210 ,
Living in Canada and knowing how people are passionate about hockey . It is of a different culture than Europe . Hockey is an entertainment, a business , we do have players going on strike and owners locking them out .
No salary increase , Aguerro , Nasri , you understand ? no salary increase and we , the hockey owners association , will drop your salary by 20% , go on strike if you want , but we will drop your salary by 20% . And they did , a year or two ago , the players went on strike .
Owners bought hockey club , baseball clubs to make money , the American owners of EPL football clubs all have this mentality . Arsenal is an excellent global brand, it was bought as a business not for a passion.
Holic @209,
Honoured to be singled out Guv’, but there are a lot of people who also regularly make this place what it is.
Cheers. 😉
I hate to break it to you Harlem but the Kroenke family are not Arsenal fans and even if they become one of us tomorrow they are under no obligation whatsoever to toss their hard earned fortunes on our club just so we can have higher chances of winning football matches, trophies & the bragging rights that come with them. I’m guessing they might be more inclined to do so if they made their money by conniving with their mates to steal their country’s money though.
Harlem@210
Owners of hockey clubs are under the strict regulations of Hockey League . If your club is loosing money , there is disposition where the making money clubs will have to give you money . The idea is every club should at least break even , there is no relegation ( death sentence ) and players have to honor contract to the letter , period .
If my memory is correct , a year or two ago , American owners of EPL want to scrap the relegation .
My idea is American owners of EPL football clubs have a totally different mindset than Russian and Arab owners .
Behind every great fortune there is a crime ..or something like that anyways…!
😀
Montreal Gooner @ 210, I don’t think you can say we are competing against Ferrari with a Camry. Our first 11 should be able to play against a Chelsea or Mancity team and be good. The problem is our squad depth and this never ending injury problems. Have you taken a look at our first eleven bar the DM/CB positions that needs to be filled. I don’t think we are that far behind those teams. Wenger needs to find his passion back and be realistic about our situation right now.
Just read Poldi’s official twitter, he officially left to Inter. Good luck for him. But meanwhile let us rip Hull apart tomorrow!
And Holic, if Wenger has 3 years to go I hope you have more years to come.
The Bolly is on the bar. Holic has renewed the lease for the time being. However don’t any of you thugs let yourselves down and start trashing the place. 🙂
Cheers all.
BTM recently wrote an excellent guest post which espoused the view that, essentially, the Premier league can be bought.
It’s a view that is hard to argue with – in the Premier League era we have seen Blackburn Rovers win the title with the backing of a multi millionaire, and of course Chelsea and Manchester City are the most recent examples of clubs raised to new hieghts by owners with the deepest of deep pockets.
It should not be forgotten that, for all thier current bleating,it was Manchester United who for many years had no serious financial rivals,and had carte blanche when it came to cherry picking the very best players in the world. Who can forget the 35M spent on Rio Ferdinand – a centre half – an eye watering amount both then and now.
BTM says,quite correctly, that a clubs ability to pay the highest wages will attract the best players,and the best players,generally speaking,will form the best teams,and the best teams are more likerly to win games of football,and therefore titles. (I’m paraphrasing BTM – dont shoot me!).
THE ONLY TEAM TO BUCK THIS TREND AND WIN TITLES WITHOUT SPENDING THE MOST MONEY IS ARSENAL.
This remarkable achievement is of course the feather in Arsene Wengers cap – its also the rock that is dragging him down.
Having done it before,fans now have an expectation level that was previously unheard of. we DEMAND it.
in my view it is extremely unlikely that anyone (Arsene included) can replicate these achievments given the current levels of backing for other top four teams.
HOWEVER!
Having proved in the past that by skilful purchasing,molding and management, it is possible to beat the big spenders, it gives us hope that it can be done.
The real question is: Are Arsenal and Arsene capable of replicating the miracle-working of yesteryear?
We can only watch and hope.
Which is of course the nature of football supporters worldwide.
Happy New Year1
222; Great flippin post mate!! 🙂
H2H2
Are you telling me that no opposition manager has ever been harangued by a home fan before? As for reason, might alcohol be implicated? There is no real evidence he did abuse Wenger
Holic
Great decision, let’s hope we have a higher level of debate about the transfer window than was generated at times in the summer!
BB@218
Haha you get it .
Abramovich get all Siberia gaz for FREE and sold back to Gazprom , his Putin buddy , for 11 billions dollars .
Abramovich bought Chealsea , the primary reason , is to set himself above Russian justice system. Actually , there is no justice system in Russia , there are thieves and thugs , once they are in power , they will try to get you if there is a settlement to be with you . We seen enough of what is going on with Russia and Ukraine .
Of course with all these billions dollars from Russian and Arabs flowing into the economy , who doesn’t want that .What England and EPL have done good is to get all these money without the thugery , the mafia usually associated with .
Some great posts above; N7, Trev, Arsenal71 and TTG to name a few, thanks for them…
I have supported AFC for over 30 years, following on from my dad, grandad and great grandad! I really didnt have much of a choice! Even in my darkest moments, like being 3 nil down at HT to SToke, or losing 6 nil to the chavs, or being at the Emptihad while Adebayor slides on his knees right in front of me grinning after scoring a goal against his former employers, or the relegation form that followed the Carling Cup defeat to Brum, I have called the manager a c**t and wanted him gone and TBH he probably would have been sacked by a few other clubs after some of the defeats and poor form we have suffered.
But Arsenal are different class and what Wenger has done for this club demands that he be treated differently too I feel. He deserved a shit load more respect than I have given him recently thats for sure. I shouldnt really be having to defend him anyway, we are the current FA cup holders FFS! Us and Man City won titles last season, not the media darlings; scousers, chavs or spuds. Calling for him to go after every defeat is fucking warped and shows our support up big style. Lokk at the Mourinho and his “all conquering new invicibles” they were supposed to walk this league yet that may not come to pass. Things can change and we have been in far worse positions many many times before. I do feel there is a complete lack of perspective when it comes to Arsenal and Wenger. The media revel in an Arsenal loss that os for sure, because the know it causes ructions in the Gooniverse (great name for a blog BTW!)
I was in the pub after the Manu game and there wasnt a Gooner in there who wanted AW to stay, me being one of them… BUT, that was in the heat of the moment and was brought about by the frustrations of recent poor performances and bad results… Just like this ridiculous outpouring of bile after we lost the last of three fistures in short succession and a tough away game to boot.
Of course we could have got a different manager in, like Owen Coyle, David Moyes, Michael Laudrup to name a few flavours of the month… and we’d be…. erm, probably a shite load worse off than we currently are. I mean, three points off 4th place in December, with half the team due back from injury and with an opportunity to strengthen the squad is really terrible isnt it? 🙂
As someone said already, the time to jusge this team is in May.
All I want from Arsenal, the manager and board is for the team to be as competitive as it can be, without bankrutping the club or paying the kinds of wages that Rooney blackmailed ManU for. That for me means having a quality squad, with depth… All Arsenal supporters should do is, beable to converse with other Gooners without resorting to slagging each other off, or worse and actually getting behind the team AND manager during games, at least!
Not too much to ask for is it! 🙂
UTA!
Good luck to Poldi I still think he wasn’t given enough time on the pitch to make any mark for himself, he still managed to score some goals when allowed this season.
His left foot and his attitude will definitely be missed!
Goonerholic, You ARE Santa Claus. Thank you xx
Bless you abb, x. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Impressive Failage @222 and Dexter @226, those are amongst the best posts I have read in this bar.
Top, top quality, heartfelt prose expressing the finest principles.
Drinks of your choice on the bar.
Happy new year, gents.
Slainte
Fine post Dexter. I think most of us have been very disillusioned after defeats or unfulfilling transfer windows. I was apoplectic after the first game at home to Villa the next season . Two things cause me to reflect. The inability of managers to perform consistently without spending huge amounts of money. For example Martinez did well last season but is fighting relegation this.
The other is the regularity with which this team fight back. Remember after beating Spurs 5-2 three seasons ago we went on a brilliant run. The following year we lost at the Swamp 2-1 and AVB talked of a spiral that was so negative we put together a great unbeaten run. Last season we fell away in the League but then when Everton loomed we raced away again. You don’t do that regularly without planning, motivation and a belief in the manager.
My plea is that we think very carefully before jettisoning someone as committed and reliable as Wenger. I don’t see a viable, assured replacement out there. Simeone, Guardiola and Klopp might do the job but don’t know the EPL. The one man who would be acceptable to me and is an Arsenal quality character is Ancelotti. He’s doing rather well elsewhere at present!
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