Gunners Second String Found Wanting Again
Nov 30th, 2016 by 'holic
Arsene Wenger’s team was pretty much as predicted beforehand as thousands struggled to get to the Grove amid underground transport chaos. I hadn’t foreseen the promotion of Jeff Reine-Adelaide on the right flank, but ten changes it was. Southampton went with a very strong, although also much-changed, line-up and a difficult night lay in store.
The extent of that travel chaos was clear as the teams emerged to a stadium nowhere near full. A minute of silence was immaculately observed for the victims of the Chapecoense plane crash.
After a cagey start the Saints exploded into the lead in the 12th minute. Bertrand was put clear down the left and his cross eventually found it’s way to Clasie who drove it home fiercely. The visitors had made their intent clear.
Arsenal 0-1 Southampton
The Arsenal’s attempts to get back into the game quickly foundered as Alex Iwobi ran into a penalty area roadblock, and Carl Jenkinson angled a cross over the crossbar. A laboured performance didn’t look any better when Bertrand sprinted away from Mohamed Elneny and the Arsenal man took a yellow card for tugging him back.
Iwobi’s attempts to inject life into his team usually fell down with his final ball, a shame as he wasn’t hiding and needs a confidence-boosting performance. He was the second Gunner into the book for a foul on Boufal.
Yoshida’s awful body-check on Reine-Adelaide added to the yellow card count, and from the resulting free-kick the Japanese defender came closest to scoring the equaliser with a glancing header just beyond the far post.
Bertrand was not as profligate at the other end, sliding his effort from Boufal’s cross inside the far post. 38 minutes in, and our unbeaten run all but lay in tatters in front of a sparse and subdued crowd.
Arsenal 0-2 Southampton
An early substitution was enforced when the unfortunate Elneny limped out of the game to be replaced by Granit Xhaka just before half-time. When that whistle blew the air was filled with boos, hardly surprising but not exactly helpful to young players.
At least we started the second-half with our most incisive move of the match but Aaron Ramsey’s final effort was comfortably pouched by Forster in the Southampton goal. Long sought to counter but was just about denied by Emiliano Martinez. Xhaka’s thumping free-kick from over thirty yards was saved comfortably enough, but it was a fair effort from that range.
As the teams exchanged breaks at pace Boufal slid one narrowly wide of the far post. Arsenal’s need for adventure meant we were even more vulnerable than in the opening half. Even Coquelin had a crack at goal from outside the box but Forster made another comfortable save.
Seeking greater momentum Arsene sent on Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain for Reine-Adelaide just past the hour mark, followed by Ainsley Maitland-Niles for the out of form Jenkinson. At this point it was questionable whether Arsenal or my streams were playing worse.
I saw Gibbs denied from a far post header, Rambo’s none too convincing penalty appeal, and Lucas picking up a yellow card. True, we were playing much better than in the first half, but that two goal deficit looked far too tough a mountain to climb.
Iwobi jinked and drove another effort at Forster. Have you ever tried to smash down a well-built wall with a rubber hammer? Well, we were trying. A desperate clearance by Maitland-Niles prevented a final humiliation as the clock ticked down.
Quite what you feel about tonight will depend on your view of the EFL Cup as a trophy. It is, fair enough, clearly number four in Arsene’s list of priorities. It is frustrating though for those who would argue it is the easiest of our four main competitions to win, and I understand that too. The surrender of it this evening will have to be judged against what we go on to do in the remaining months of the season.
Tonight though a combination of Arsenal and TfL left an awful lot of people feeling very frustrated. If those who missed tonight go on refreshed to take the points at West Ham on Saturday then tonight will make a lot more sense to a few.
55 Responses to “Gunners Second String Found Wanting Again”
First?
As quick on the draw as ever, Guv’nor.
With Manure and the Scousers in the semis and playing strong teams, this trophy may not be that easily winnable. As you indicate, other silverware at the end of the season and tonight will be forgotten.
the commentary was i’m sure
more beautiful in the original arabic
.
in my head we fucked up
right an royally
Couldn’t see where the creativity was coming from in the team we put out tonight,and so it proved.
Don’t be beguiled by the changes made to the Southampton side,there’s was still a very good side.
Against lower tier opposition,making wholesale changes to your team wouldn’t matter,but in this instance we just didn’t gel at all.
One of the few chances at a trophy for the Saints,and the selections and the way they played reflected that.
Did we really want a 2 legged semi final squeezed into a crowded January schedule. ??
Not me.
Far bigger fish to fry in the New Year.
And as if to underline my thoughts,we would have been playing Liverpool in the semi final.
Another quick lightning report Guv’nor
With my frustration in the previous drinks I thought those lads could have done a great deal better, but in the heat of the moment we forget that The Saints are a very organised side we just about beat them with our full squad and needed a last ditch penalty to snatch a win.
We lacked quality in the side Perez has played twice and only in this competition in the starting eleven. Ramsey is not Ozil as NBN has mentioned in previous drinks and slows the game as soon as he gets the ball. Jenkinson and Gibbs had a really bad game! We had no presence up front, considering the young guns had a good game it was a similar team that played and beat Reading, however I had a feeling this was going to be too much for them, hence I wanted a better mix for this one.
One less competition to be worried about FA, CL and PL still up for grabs!
COME ON ARSENAL! 🙂
Thanks for the report, Guvna. I neither saw this game nor heard it on the Arsenal player. I am ever so glad I didn’t drive up tonight.
It sounds like the same thing that happened 2 seasons ago with a scratch Arsenal side being outclassed by a strategic mix of first teasers and reserves from Southampton who have proved to be a bit of a bogey side over recent years.
The upside is certainly the reduction in our January fixture congestion. Given that we don’t have the strength to compete on 4 fronts even though our squad is certainly stronger than it’s been for several years, this may well be a blessing in disguise.
However I would have preferred to read that we had been robbed after a stirring performance by all concerned. Where’s a dodgy ref when we need one? 🙂
Did I mention it was f…ing freezing? And the Piccadilly line was up the creek for the second game running?
Jenkinson has moved to a new level after two years at West Ham. Sadly a much lower level. The poor lad has had an awful injury but he looks like he won’t feature much again. Maitland- Niles looked far superior after he. Some on. Props to Iwobi , Holding, Coquelin and The Ox who tried hard. Perez needs some games and Martinez was blameless . Ramsey was awful. I really would think seriously about whether he might be a useful source of revenue. He isn’t a useful source of football .
The Saints had a better blend and in Van Dijk and Bertrand some real class.
Clive is right we have other fish to fry. Did I mention how cold it was☃️⛄️☃️⛄️☃️⛄️
That’s what you get when you sleepwalk through the first half and only try the higher gears after you’re two down.
If this lot are the future of Arsenal, I doubt we have one.
I’ll give Iwobi credit for standing out from the rest with some nice movement, albeit with little end result.
Rambo for Mesut when the latter returns to RM? Only if we’re playing in the Championship. We should sign Forsberg in January. Although, if rumours suggesting his coach Ralph Hassenhuettl is a possible to succeed AW, perhaps they’ll come together.
Good summary of a disappointing game. The commentator on my stream said “You get the feeling that this Arsenal team wouldn’t score if they played on all night through the wee small hours”. I think he was right.
I’m with The Sweeper. It’s a good exit and it’ll ease the fixture pressure on the three remaining competitions.
I think we missed a trick in not beating Saints to Van Dijk’s signature.
Don’t want to pile on Ramsey, who is a talent, but he is no Ozil. When Ozil isn’t there, you see what he brings to the team.
Or is it that Lucas is no Bale, and that is what Ramsey needs ahead of him?
Or at very least Sanchez.
And Clive @4 on the button, as ever. Far bigger fish to fry in the New Year.
Lucas was Summer knee-jerk mistake.
Ned, do the monks have our recent shots on target stats at their inky finger tips? Hardly any to count I would have thought. I counted two today, one each from Lucas and Rambo, both dollied weakly straight to keeper.
I have long believed this comp would make more sense if played to Olympic rules … i.e. under23s, with up to 3 senior players. Then it might be taken more seriously by all clubs.
Sorry bath, the referee was fine. Didn’t really notice him, so good. You’re right, I should have mentioned it en passant.
BtM, good point re van Dijk. Been impressed with him for a while now.
Slàinte mhath both, Talisker here.
I do recall a couple of Scottish correspondents giving him a bit of stick while he was with Celtic. He will be sold for big bucks soon. Saints really do rebuild well and have lots of proper players coming through.
The other downside is that you get second string fans at games like this. The lot around me were annoying, stupid and scarcely understood the game. They continually got up, bought drinks came back late and went out again.
Facing Liverpool twice in January would have been a couple of fixtures too far. But if we’d got Hull?
Slàinte mhath, Guvna. I tilt a glass of Dalmore 15yo in a Swindon direction. No criticism intended, sir.
aaahh fuck off wi yer backward fadas
ya google look up
please don’t offend
.
ye are nothing but amateur Irish
.
to be sure
For me this sums it all up:
on whether he is worried the side came up short…
No, I think you take the players today – Gabriel played on Saturday, Jenkinson played recently. Gibbs played many games recently. They all played, so I think on the night we were not at our best. That exists even if it’s not an excuse. It’s more an explanation than an excuse because there are no excuses, but I can only say well done to Southampton. They were better than us tonight.
Night all….
Thanks H. I’ve not seen or heard any of the game tonight. I saw the team selection and decided to give it a miss. Sadly the score, and performance by all accounts, were far too predictable.
Which brings me on to my next point. I have had mixed views about the league cup over the years. Now, my views are starting to change. It’s interesting reading several of the comments above. Especially the ones about us being better off out of the completion and about how out of 4 trophies that this is 4th on the list. I’m wondering if this view is a tad outdated and bordering on a little arrogant?
In my opinion, we might enter 4 completions but realistically, how many do we have a chance of winning? We aren’t anywhere near good enough to compete in the champions league. We have no hope of winning that. I don’t think we are anywhere near good enough to win the Premier League. So that effectively leaves the League Cup and FA Cup as our only genuine hopes of silverware. Surely the time has come for us to take the competition a little more seriously? To blatantly discard one of the two competitions that we actually have a chance of winning seems slightly bizarre to me, regardless of what the result is at West Ham this weekend?
That said, I’m just glad it’s not the ref’s fault this time.
🙂
“…other silverware at the end of the season and tonight will be forgotten.”
What other silverware?
“… the League Cup and FA Cup as our only genuine hopes of silverware.”
Exactly.
“Far bigger fish to fry in the New Year.”
Pathetic.
League, Littlewoods, Milk, Carling, whatever Cup – the sponsors tell you all you need to know. Meh.
Of more interest, I don’t know whether black on green stands out more but at times it seemed like we were facing a whole army of defenders, which of course we showed little guile in finding a way through. I think our new second strip should be very black.
Also, Aaron “Pele” Ramsey’s shot to distance missed ratio seemed to rise exponentially as the game progressed. A physicist Gooner pointed out that the game needed only five additional minutes before Aaron’s next shot took out the corner flag. It did however serve to make Coq’s efforts look fabulous by comparison – which they weren’t.
UTA.
I think on the night we were not at our best – ATG #19.
I think you’re right. I also think we’ve had too many games just like it recently. When did we last play at our best?
Ttg and BtM: agree with you on van Dijk. The pairing of van Dijk and Fonte at CD is one of the best, if not THE best, plying its trade in the premiership these days. Neither individually is at Koscielny’s level, but as a brace they work well as a defending tandem.
Cheers H!
Fuck the league cup in this day and age. Well past its sell by date and needs pensioning off.
I have long believed this comp would make more sense if played to Olympic rules … i.e. under23s, with up to 3 senior players. Then it might be taken more seriously by all clubs.
They’ve been pissing about with rules for selection in the EFL trophy this season (the former JPT) and that’s had a disastrous affect on the competition, with clubs posting record low attendance figures, making substitutions after less than five minutes to change lineups they were forced to begin with by the rules and getting fined left right and centre for breaches of the selection criteria.
All they should do is say to clubs who have European matches to play that if they want to drop out, they can but if they choose to stay in the competition they have to pick exclusively from their 25 man first team squad. No more packing the team/squad with U21s and scholars.
Never happening though, unfortunately.
That first team only rule should apply to all clubs, not just those in European competition. Just to make it clear.
On paper the side that started the game should have had a chance but in practice we didn’t get going, there was little cohesion between those on show and to agree with those above, heaven help us if we have a crop of injuries to the main men.
It was freezing and when you have absolutely nothing to cheer about I kept looking at the clock and planning my escape. Later following the closure of Arsenal tube I found myself on Letchworth station waiting for a train to Ely, where I boarded the rail replacement bus to Kings Lynn, what a night/early morning!
Southampton were a very decent side, pity they didn’t draw Hull in the S/F.
COYRs
Avoided the score and watched the “highlights” on Channel 5.
Still waiting for them…
Hope Southampton go on to win it….if they put the scousers in their place and beat Jose in the final it will put last night’s complete abjectness in a slightly better light…maybe.
What is this treadmill feeling coming on?
I liked Wenger’s harsh words, putting the boot in hard, he never used to do that. Either he’s learnt a lesson about molly-coddling or he’s simply desperate now to win stuff in perhaps his last year. I loved the way he let JW go out too. And no I don’t buy the line that it was the player’s decision. That departure wouldn’t have happened a couple of years ago, no way. Indeed, I went out the day of the JW news and got a bet on for the Prem at 12-1. Our silly start to the season created fantastic value there. No way are we favourites but even the 8-1 I see now is pretty enticing. I had lost patience 3 years ago with AW but I have to admit he’s doing very little wrong this season IMHO. That’s probably why I haven’t posted at all ! Tho I still love to pop by and read you all. The Xhaka thing is a bit frustrating and he looks under-utilised but I’m holding fire on it just now, presumably there’s something going on us mortal fans can’t see just yet and Granit could yet become the big new thing in the New Year, when the going get’s real tough. Wenger’s next move (apart from the contracts for the two lads of course) should be to ship out Ramsey in January before his value completely collapses. He’s no Ozil and he’s had too many chances at this stage. In a way I think Theo’s improved application and form is down to what happened to JW. Big clubs thrive on competition and you need some fear factor to snap kids out of their financial dreamlands. Not worried about last night at all. These are key, good back-up players but 11-14 of them together isn’t going to work. When I looked at that side in a way it reminded me of the kind of first XI Wenger was putting out 3-4 years ago. I still can’t forgive him for hiding behind the stadium plan for 3 or 4 years too long. He spoofed us all about the true financial state of both our club and the massive money swirling around football, which could easily have sustained more ambition back then. Up the Arse.
I’ve never seen these before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYBNFWpLQ54
And the follow up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPo64EBxHxY
Made me laugh anyway
It was certainly a chilly and rather dispiriting night on the North Bank. I completely agree with TTG above about the crowd. I’m probably going to seem very entitled – and I am lucky to have a season ticket and go to some away games – but the coming and going, the finding of seats, the going out early and coming back late, the early leaving all reminded me overwhelmingly of the multiple visits I’ve made in the States to top level basketball and baseball games.
I thought the starting XI was almost set up to fail against a top ten Prem side like Southampton. No pace, no width, no incisive passers in midfield. I’m sorry to be harsh, but Jeff and Jenks are simply not of the quality to be in our first XI. Once Xhaka and Ox came on we improved. Iwobi looked great throughout the game until he got to the final shot or ball. How we needed Danny Welbeck back for a game like this. Why wasn’t Wallcott at least on the bench? The Coq worked his cotton socks off but without Santi next to him he is a different player.
I am not of the view that I’m glad to be out of the competition. Maybe if we take 90% of the league points on offer in the next 8 weeks I’ll change my mind.
I couldn’t get a ticket for WH or Basle away so my next game is the Orcs at home a week on Saturday. Maybe the bad taste will be out of my mouth by then.
Ramsey is the biggest worry at the moment. One great season apart, the man has been average in the rest whenever he played. He is talented, Wenger fits him in most games and at times the sense is ramsey after that injury and all is like that great story of a remarkable turnaround of a career which looked over, which wenger wants to write. Sadly, this story does not seem to have a happily ever after ending. He is too ponderous, always wants to play the wow pass and has lost the discipline that made him so good. His best season had him keeping the game simple and that in a nut shell is the problem.
Our bench strength is poor was apparent. Saints never looked like conceding and we never looked like scoring. If we had made a fist of the game and then lost, there would be a solace, instead it was a meek performance.
Westham and Andy Caroll await.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/arsenal-star-santi-cazorla-told-undergo-surgery-achilles-tendon-injury-1594374
———-
If he goes for surgery , then that’s probably the last we see of him this season… either ways he’s not got too long left, which is really sad, either we play Xhaka from now on and figure our best pairing or we actively look for Santi’s replacement.
Oh Santi…
Santi’s replacement could by J.Wilshere …….
Vinay. Re: Ramsey, You are correct. He only had that one great season and has been mediocre for the most part apart otherwise. But you failed to mention that left footed screamer he scored in the Champions League a couple of years ago which propped up his reputation past his shelf date.
Cynic, they made me laugh too. Too realistic. 🙂
I too feel that getting knocked out is a blessing in disguise as we just don’t have the players of top quality beyond the first team to sustain a long campaign. I would rather take my chances in the league or FA cup.
A loss still rankles but it was more in the way we were shown up that hurts; if we had faught and lost I would have wished the winners well and moved on but that we were outclassed at home hurts.
We improved once Xhaka came on and even created a few chances on Ox’s introduction but there were too many passengers (Ramsey, Elneny who has no pace, Adelaide, Jenkinson, Perez who has not played enough, Gibbs etc) and we were lucky to not lose by a much bigger margin).
We will do just enough to take a top four place and have an extended run in the FA cup but nothing beyond that. I only hope that we are able to get Ozil and Sanchez to re-sign otherwise we can bid goodbye to the next season too.
What surprises me is how Southampton manage to recruit such good players on a consistent basis and they appear just as strong even after losing virtually their first team over the last three seasons. We can learn a few things from them but I doubt we will.
apologies
ye are just as important as us
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yw0bLHTOb0
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b605qq7xBzM
.
*mc chuckles*
Gabriel’s video just made me blub.
Trev if you are about,
Santi is having an Op on the Plantaris tendon in the right foot.
I assume this must interconnect with the Achilles inflammation he is suffering in his right heel.
Given the delicacy of the Op,is 3 months out realistic,and what is the success rate of these types of ops on the tendons.
Santi Cazorla’s season is sadly running down and even sadder his career must be seen at this point as also running down. If you plotted the trajectory of his injuries on a curve the line would be going alarmingly higher than it did previous to last season. Arsenal have been incredibly lucky to enjoy some of the best years of his career with him as an Arsenal player. Crossing my fingers that we will get to see some more of him making his typical massive contributions to our cause.
Another I hadn’t heard before was the “Free Stadium of London” which was used by Arseblog today. Sounds like it could catch on.
Ksn
I agree with most of your evaluations but don’t consider pace to be the most important prerequisite of a central midfielder. We haven’t had huge pace there for some time and the blessed Santi whose news today spells the end of any fleeting chance we had of winning the league certainly doesn’t have much pace. Speed of thought is often more important
Elneny isn’t playing as well as he did last season and last night was channelling Ray Wilkins at his most crablike. It is interesting that with top players alongside you can camouflage individual weaknesses quite well but if you have too many inadequate players you have problems. I don’t like criticising our players but of the fringe players The Corporal is unlikely to make much further progress, sad because he was a decent backup before he went to West Ham and got injured. The Jeff looks underwhelming to me. It’s obvious he has skill but his languid style makes him look off the pace. Gibbs is a good left back and in a better defence is adequate as a back- up.
Iwobi, Coquelin, Xhaka , Holding , Gabriela and Ox are good enough
to be in the squad and Xhaka and Le Coq will start often. Le Coq is limited and not creative but Xhaka exudes class. Perez can’t be judged until he has a run of games. I can see a player there but he needs to be sharper and get a decent service. Ox needs to kick on because he has had some shockers this year but he has immense talent but only displays it in flashes. He’s too old now to be classed or judged as a youngster and isn’t playing any better regularly for us than he did in his breakthrough season. He should ponder the reasons for that .
Maitland-Niles is a real bright spot. I would be happier to have him rather than Jenko at right back on Saturday but AW will probably go with Gabriel who did well on Sunday. M- N is classy, versatile and has a lot of confidence. He is someone I could see doing well in a wide right position.
As for Ramsey I don’t want to say much more. He is wildly overrated in my view and isn’t anywhere near the level he is placed at by those who only see him play for Wales.
It is the Santi news has gutted me tonight, for him and for us all. He’s a little diamond and we will miss him terribly..
me too, cynic. heartbreaking.
https://twitter.com/Arsenal/status/804363000970874880
força chape.
Why wasn’t Wallcott at least on the bench? – countryman #34
The last I saw of Theo was after he was subbed off at the weekend, sitting on the bench with his right leg swathed in ice. I suspect he’s been playing with a knock lately and, in true Theo form, is once more on the cusp of long-term injury. I imagine AW is using him as minimally as he dares, hence the subbing off when he was at least as threatening as anyone else against the Cherries. No chance of him turning out for a cause AW clearly doesn’t believe in.
You’re spot on with Jack, countryman, the logical alt for Santi. He should have been recalled weeks ago. I mean, when was he last as fit for us as he’s been for Bournemouth recently? At his best he still has a major role to play for us.
Cesc, anyone?
TTG
Whether pace is an important prerequisite for a central midfielder or not depends on how a team is set up to play. The more defensive the team the less important is pace. We are not a defensively oriented team and quick recovery is important. Pace is important in our way of playing with eight players in the opposing half and most teams adopting the same tactics against us, sit deep with everyone in their own half and have one or two pacey players threatening on the counter. Southampton had Long, Boufal and Bertrand who were all faster than our midfielders; in earlier matches against Middlesborough (Traore and Martinez?) and Swansea (Barrow) we saw the exact same thing. We will see that again on Saturday against West Ham. We have got away with it so far because of the pace of Bellerin and Walcott on the right though we struggle on the left where Monreal is not as fast. Pace is important for our midfielders because of the way we play.
Though Elneny is a central midfielder he is all over the field, especially when pressing, and he was on the right wing when Boufal took off and Elneny just could not keep up.
Agree about M-N, he looked confident and competent and in my view better than Jenkinson.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-38179882
A new low for the chavs….
BB, I suspect we don’t have any inkling of how low they have gone or indeed will go if they see it in their interests.
Red Bull Leipzig coach Ralph Hasenhuttl has said a report claiming he has been lined up to replace Arsene Wenger as Arsenal manager is ‘well researched’ and includes a lot of truth.
Hmmm.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>